Keeney Angus April 7 Bull and Heifer Sale

Grassfarmer wrote:

Larry Leonhardt wrote:

Very confused liberals tend to strew things about with diversionary self-rightous tactics driven by class warfare. They cannot see what makes the world turn tryin' to stop the unstoppable. From what we all see, they can only see how ruthless survival of the fittest can be which was born out of necessity. They don't seem to see that helping the helpless cannot be by rendering ones ownself helpless.

So, congratulations Mr. Mike Keeney for successfully growing for 50 years by drawing a line between feeding a need and gluttonous greed in Smileyville, KY

Larry I'm maybe confused but I don't think I'm a liberal but it makes a change from being labelled a communist in Alberta I was a proud Conservative, free market believer when I decided to leave Scotland which with impending independence risks turning into a socialist republic. Moving to Alberta, a land of oil and cowboys with a ruling 40 year "Conservative" dynasty I thought I'd be comfortable in a free market driven, capitalist society. Man, was I ever wrong on that score.
In recent years the Government has passed legislation that gives the cabinet absolute authority to revoke an individuals property titles, water rights, marriage licences with the stroke of a pen, with no right to compensation and no recourse to the law courts.
Another current issue here involves the deregulation of our electricity supply which was supposed to lead to cheaper power for citizens. Well my last bill totalled 21cents per KWH in one of the most energy abundant areas of the world so the "roll back" pricing doesn't seem to be working on that one. And it gets worse... Government approval was recently given to build two massive new power lines in Alberta - at public expense. We are the only jurisdiction in the western world that has approved such spending of public funds without a needs assessment. The story is that these are needed to prevent blackouts in Calgary yet in the wiring schematics of the plan the lines go straight past Calgary heading to the US. So the Government has approved power lines being built to export power generated in the Tar Sands, paid for by residents but given to a for profit corporation to operate. And the kicker is the Government has also guaranteed the company a 9% return on the investment it didn't have to make (the investment was funded by the taxpayer). To me the results of unconstrained capitalism and communism appear to be about the same.

So in fighting what I see as injustices am I trying to "stop the unstoppable" or "drawing a line between feeding a need and gluttonous greed"?

The thing that annoys me most is the taunt that because I do not choose to support Monsanto, Tesco or Walmart I'm envious of their success and can't run a business successfully myself. We have managed just fine for over 300 years in our family to run a capitalist business in primary agriculture unlike today's agri-food corporations who are a mere speck on the time chart of human activity. These corporations may be successful apex predators in business terms but I believe they are parasitic to humanity as a whole.

GF, I don't want to divert Mike's sale topic to a long list of subjects about unfairness that we could debate forever. I do agree completely with all that you've stated and I suspect neither of us are liberal nor conservative, more likely we're self-reliant independents. I suppose I have an appreciation of Sam Walton since his life's early business journey parallels my own ups and downs in the agricultural business.

Mikes Declaration of Independence is simply a defensive mechanism to free himself from all the parasitic rules and regulations that we have so willingly been enslaved to. The ABC or TruLine objective is a mom and pop business for the innovative self-reliant, who's practical common sense can easily win in competition with those who measure success by the quantity of their self wealth.....it's a no brainer

Angus 62 wrote:

I disagree guys. Walmart is all about driving out any competition. After they do that they can pretty much do what they want - offer less choices which is what was done locally. Had a small quick lube place that was pretty good and certainly more knowledgeable than the Wally World staff but not enough business. For all I know Walmart looses money on oil changes but makes up for it buy having a captive customer wandering around with kids that can find no end to the amount of junk they nag Mom to buy.

Yes wal-mart does drive out competition, only because we allow it.

W.T wrote:

Angus 62 wrote:

I disagree guys. Walmart is all about driving out any competition. After they do that they can pretty much do what they want - offer less choices which is what was done locally. Had a small quick lube place that was pretty good and certainly more knowledgeable than the Wally World staff but not enough business. For all I know Walmart looses money on oil changes but makes up for it buy having a captive customer wandering around with kids that can find no end to the amount of junk they nag Mom to buy.

Yes wal-mart does drive out competition, only because we allow it.

It is the "Stampede" effect...taking advantage of the ignorance and stupidity of the 99%. Personally, I dislike this.

I get a kick out of how treads go their many directions; and with info at your fingertips, your reading and learning go in varied directions as well.
GF,
I remember ole Kit telling me I could be as successful as him if I would spend as much time promoting myself and my cattle as I did tearing his BS down...I had the pleasure of telling him I didn`t want success by his measure; I didn`t want to sell my bulls for $5,000 each because I knew damn well they weren`t worth it; and I knew his weren`t worth it either...but if he wanted to , have at it...I further explained that not everyone wants to be, or can be Kit or Sam, and whether by inherent qualities or rationalization, most of us reach a point where we are quite satisfied with our own station in life...thank goodness, if not, what a totally unhappy world this would be...unhappy enough as it is.... of course, that is the purpose of advertising, to make you unhappy in your current circumstance
in the course of time, the current mainstream BS will create enough unhappiness to create more business than we can accomodate; for we are not prepared with a proper systematic alternative...when we get prepared, then we can go after the ignorance is bliss crowd with some advertising ...the nice thing about this proposed conglomerate would be you could sleep at night instead of responding to unhappy people; for the expectations will be commensurate with the price...real instead of a mirage...

outsidethebox wrote:

W.T wrote:

Angus 62 wrote:

I disagree guys. Walmart is all about driving out any competition. After they do that they can pretty much do what they want - offer less choices which is what was done locally. Had a small quick lube place that was pretty good and certainly more knowledgeable than the Wally World staff but not enough business. For all I know Walmart looses money on oil changes but makes up for it buy having a captive customer wandering around with kids that can find no end to the amount of junk they nag Mom to buy.

Yes wal-mart does drive out competition, only because we allow it.

It is the "Stampede" effect...taking advantage of the ignorance and stupidity of the 99%. Personally, I dislike this.

well, I don`t like it either...but name a better alternative than survival of the fitest? my best friend here runs a general hardware plus store in the giant unincorporated metropolis of Nancy, KY...his two sons, neither particularly industrious, work in the business as well; a third is in college...my monthly bill is usually considerable there because his store is more convenient than Walmart...across the road is Family Dollar; out the road 1/2 mile is General Dollar, both erected years AFTER Walmart , which is a mere 8 miles away...I expect my friend to still be in Nancy in business til he dies; he came in 73; survived the first wife divorce {and the split of property that brought him to Nancy}; survived his second wife dying ; never remarried, raised three sons on his own in his own house, and I`ve never heard him bitch about Walmart a single day...he spends too much time beating them with service, knowledge of product and the community`s people, and hard work...and I would expect the same from the breeders who ran a Tru-line store...

Fair enough Larry, sorry for taking the thread off at a tangent. Just somedays I wake up and wonder if I'm living in a lunatic asylum where the guards were overthrown and the inmates are running the show (that's Alberta I'm talking about - not KC ) It makes me mad, grumpy and an "activist" by AB standards.

It is history repeating itself, as we stay off topic! The same kind of complaints existed with Sears and Robuck back when they were the cat's meow. Then it was Kmart and the blue light specials that were unfair advantages to close up all of the local 5&10's in town. Now, Walmart and if you feel great hatred, it can be spread to Target, Lowes, Home Depot and the list goes on and will go on. And with that belch of wisdom, Mike, tell us what we'll see in terms of types, lines, options or whatever you'll offer on April 7. Will there be a urinal on every post?

EddieM wrote:

It is history repeating itself, as we stay off topic! The same kind of complaints existed with Sears and Robuck back when they were the cat's meow. Then it was Kmart and the blue light specials that were unfair advantages to close up all of the local 5&10's in town. Now, Walmart and if you feel great hatred, it can be spread to Target, Lowes, Home Depot and the list goes on and will go on. And with that belch of wisdom, Mike, tell us what we'll see in terms of types, lines, options or whatever you'll offer on April 7. Will there be a urinal on every post?

I don't have all that much hatred, I guess, but I do hate Lowes or Home Depot or Sear Grand. I actually kind of enjoy Wal-Mart when I make my bi-annual track there. My last trip to Lowes involving a washing machine in which I purchased, then waited in front of the store for one of the pimple heads to load it, for an hour. Finally after going back in to confiscate my check back, it magically appeared. I guess if that is the worst thing that ever happened to me life would be pretty good. I still don't like 'em though, and that is okay.

They don't sell bulls there or cows or trucks or feed or diesel or Copenhagen or beer or women, so I guess I could probably live without 'em for some time quite well......or diapers, can't forget the diapers, lots and lots of diapers, did I mention diapers.



Bootheel, smelling better after my water got turned back on

Maybe some updated pictures of sale cattle would get us on track better. Somehow my Athletic Director has not scheduled a track meet for me sale day as of yet so there is a chance I am going to make it this year.

Mark Day wrote:

Maybe some updated pictures of sale cattle would get us on track better. Somehow my Athletic Director has not scheduled a track meet for me sale day as of yet so there is a chance I am going to make it this year.

hope you make it Mark...bring me a load of bythe heifers if you wish; name the price first though ...I enjoy the twists and the turns the discussion takes...just because you are on a narrow, less traveled road, doesn`t mean you can`t see a broad horizon...

How broad is this breed?
3/4 sisters that will be the dams of the next three KAF herd sires; all sired by the same bull, making the sons 7/8 brothers...of course, brothers aren`t always significantly alike UNLESS they are derived from an inbred genepool with consistent selection





the cows, 0ne 6 and two 7, weigh around 1400 heavy springing...they are sired by this little twerp
who made it to 1600 lb mature...


the sire of the herd bulls to be as a calf...

mature


we are going to collect this bull again; he has established himself at 7 years of age as our most satisfying
bull ever for cows in this environment...he`s a not Wagyu or Longhorn on CE, but has worked ok here on heifers...
$10/straw
his dam


I think this breed is broad enough to last many years past me...

So how or why did you know the little twerp with a mature weight of 1600 would give you cows like that?

Mark Day wrote:

So how or why did you know the little twerp with a mature weight of 1600 would give you cows like that?

sad to say Mark, I didn`t know anything for sure...in fact, I was disappointed he did not get bigger, but I the cows behind him were very much like the cows pictured...all`s well that end`s well

"Goodness" certainly seems to have a type - these 3 cow pictures could all be of the same animal, just posed a little different.

Grassy,
making that same kind more often is the objective for sure; when the type is right, the size doesn`t matter as much as long as we avoid the extremes...
back to Mark`s comment "about knowing"...standing in a herd of cattle where the objective and the genetics has been the same for 30 years is a lot more important than the individual animal you pick from that herd...compare that to running all over the country to every thing registered as an Angus to find the outlier not only of the herd, but of the breed and expecting predictable results of the daughters? let`s get real...well, in fact, everyone here is already real, or you would not be here
I read the most laughable comment on 4.9...that cows, not bulls, make good cows...well duh, when you breed for everything else but good cows as the priority, what the hell would you expect...? you get what you breed for....
but present all the evidence you can find, and the performance game defenders will blindly argue; who wants to admit that their 40 year breeding direction has been all for naught as far as overall efficiency in beef production?
the efficiency is in the system , not in the individual pieces that fit together in the system...

Jack Sprat could eat no fat.
His wife could eat no lean.
And so between them both, you see,
They licked the platter clean

we`re going to clean some plows someday...build a system, and they will come

I may have been misleading on the broadness of this breed...it includes this cow as well as several others; I don`t think this one will be too disruptive

a comment I intended to make on Jack`s discussion of cow size and type...
we spend so much time defining the right type, that we run out of time to refine a "good " type...these "good type" cows may not be the "right type" for you and certainly are not "perfect" in every way...but we won`t be changing this breed within a breed?, only refining it...

I could not agree more Mike.

Jack, a most agreeable type.

and as part of this "breed", this cow is available as well ...the "gene carrier" of this cow is in the pasture now...thx to Hilly and Joe Dunkum


making new breeds by narrowing, rather than expanding a base, is exciting; and it`s nice to be in agreement and in a co-operative effort with other breeders...

MKeeney wrote:

How broad is this breed?
3/4 sisters that will be the dams of the next three KAF herd sires; all sired by the same bull, making the sons 7/8 brothers...of course, brothers aren`t always significantly alike UNLESS they are derived from an inbred genepool with consistent selection





the cows, 0ne 6 and two 7, weigh around 1400 heavy springing...they are sired by this little twerp
who made it to 1600 lb mature...


the sire of the herd bulls to be as a calf...

mature



we are going to collect this bull again; he has established himself at 7 years of age as our most satisfying
bull ever for cows in this environment...he`s a not Wagyu or Longhorn on CE, but has worked ok here on heifers...
$10/straw
his dam


I think this breed is broad enough to last many years past me...

Seeing for many is believing (myself included), great stuff Mike.... and this is only the half of it




.

oh gosh Hilly; there ya go ruining my grand illusion created by using just the half we see...but those of us working on the "future system" can feel a little special because we are working on the unseen half as well...

I just wanted to reiterate the fact that the sort is getting less all the time by following the simple principals and it’s the half you don’t see that will set these cows apart from a visually equivalent group from a random sort.

Which was brought across in your foot notes, I just didn’t want it to get missed

Hearing stories of common bred heifers selling at the yards on normal sale days for $1500 and higher and feeders bringing $700-800 suggest to me that there may not be a sort anymore for some unless it won't breed and runs you out of the field.

Mark Day wrote:

Hearing stories of common bred heifers selling at the yards on normal sale days for $1500 and higher and feeders bringing $700-800 suggest to me that there may not be a sort anymore for some unless it won't breed and runs you out of the field.

stories abound...one fellow got $1750 for Gelbvieh crosses bred "ai" {very important ya know} cleaned up with Angus bull...another guy couldn`t get but $1350 for some put together heifers in a bluegrass stockyard cow sale...quality still matters, but hype {ai} may matter more...

An e-mail I received today:

Quote :

I would like to personally invite you to join us in Wellington, CO on March 23rd and 24th. We've upped our offering to 690 bulls and 160 females! Join us on Friday to tour the bulls, enjoy our evening educational program on Cow Size, meet top ranchers from around the country, and listen to the story telling and singing talents of Red Steagall. The sale will start promptly at 9 am on Saturday, March 24th. If you plan to attend, call the hotel today at 1-800-Embassy. Ask for the Leachman Spring Sale special rate.

Made me wonder who the Keeney sale would have as their singing talent-- Voss or McNamee?