Keeney Angus April 7 Bull and Heifer Sale

Angus 62 wrote:

5050 - a blend of two of the worst ideas the Angus breed ever had.

where's that 'like' button gone again

while not even remotely anticipated but by the few, still the Keeney Angus catalog reminds me of a couple of instances in my life
where the anticipation was far greater than the event; as is this...yet, there are several subtle messages here to where I see a Tru-line effort going; and where Keeney Angus is going, co-operative Tru-line or no...Keeney Angus business as usual is not registered business as usual; and if we become solely a commercial operation; we won`t be a commercial business as usual either, because a Tru-line seedstock effort will still be self-employed...

I put this up here to discuss theory more than sell cattle; feel free to just do it...



Welcome to the Keeney Angus 2012 Business as Usual Bull and Heifer Sale, 12:30 pm, April 7, 2012 at the farm, 5 miles West of Somerset, KY on HWY 80...phone number 606-305-4501

Here’s how the sale works…
The animals will not be run through an auction ring. Each bull or heifer will have a very reasonable, pre-set base price. Each prospective buyer should register upon arrival and receive a buyer’s number, then inspect the offering and make notes on any bulls he may be interested in bidding on. The sale will start promptly at 12:30 PM and begin with pen 1, and proceed to sell choice of the pen until completion. Any lot not receiving the minimum bid will be passed and be available after the sale at the minimum price.

Terms and conditions- the cattle sell under the standard terms and conditions as suggested by the American Angus Association. All bulls have been breeding soundness evaluated and are guaranteed to be breeders. They are not guaranteed against injury after you take possession.

Special Representatives- Dr. John Johns, retired UK extension specialist; Keenan Turner, retired Pulaski Co. Agent
Buyers unable to attend the sale- should contact us before sale time and may have a representative bid for them, or may bid personally via the sale day telephone, 606-305-4501 or 606-875-1815.

Delivery- 100 mile delivery is included in the purchase price of the bulls; however, we will deduct $100 on any bull picked up sale day or soon thereafter. We will guarantee any out of state bull sales to not cost the buyer more than $250/head. Heifers can be delivered at a cost of $2.25/loaded mile. We will assist in helping combine loads; although all reasonable care will be taken by us, animals become the responsibility of the buyer after April 7.

Liability- All persons attending the sale do so at their own risk.

A complimentary lunch will be served...come early.

The number evaluation we have used in the past has been discontinued; bulls are grouped in pens according to our recommended usage based on our experiences and accumulated data. Of these, calving ease is the most difficult to predict since over half of the contribution to calving ease will be by the genetics a cow or heifer our bull is bred to; and the management of those females. All bulls are good temperament; from functional cows with fewer problems.
Pictures along with discussion will be posted by April 1 at
http://www.keeneyscorner.com/t582-keeney-angus-april-7-bull-and-heifer-sale

all bulls were born in March; the first 30 days of the calving season.


Tag No sire selling choice in all pens until pen is sold….minimum price $1750
Pen 1…Model A cowmaker bulls mostly sired by Shoshone Fenley 6309…


101 The daughters of Fenley will be 1200-1300 lb cows mature with body capacity, gentle temperament, slick hair
107 and our most consistent udder quality ever. We have used Fenley on heifers with a minimum of trouble or
111 birth weight and expect these sons, though certainly not Longhorns, to be similar in use. Breed to heifers
112 that will be observed at calving.
013
010 This bull is an outlier in the sire group; very correct, with more frame, growth, and birth weight. Not for heifers.
003 3121 a moderate, well balanced son of another Shoshone bull we bought in dam from Larry Leonhardt.
113 735 a closely linebred bull to Shoshone Encore 6310; masculine, big testicles, calm.

Pen 2…Model A cowmaker bulls sired by KA Sniff the Wind; selling choice until pen is sold;minimum price $1750

049 Sniff the Wind`s dam continues in top production form at 16 years of age. These bulls have a bit more frame
051 and later maturity than Pen 1, good testicle size and libido; and are free moving and sound footed. These bulls
078 can be used on heifers that will be observed at calving.
095 Model A cowmaker sire selection is limited to the Keeney Angus or Shoshone gene pools; insuring fewer
138 surprises while maintaining a consistent genotype aided by selection.
047 This bull has a bad blemish from pinkeye in the right eye; his dam a 1200 lb, slick haired, perfect udder cow .
3146 MS a straight Shoshone bull from an old cow I always admired and purchased from Shoshone


Pen 3…Model A cowmaker bulls sired by KA Louie 826…selling choice until pen is sold….minimum price $1750


042 These bulls were all born unassisted from 2 yr old heifers; many of which were 6309 daughters, and all of that
141 type; they are peas in a pod; I wouldn`t make a dime`s difference in them if I was buying one; we`ll use any
068 that are unsold. The first daughters of 826 calved this spring. They are our sharpest fronted, most feminine
073 females with body capacity and terrific udder quality. They are later maturing, as are these brothers selling,
020 and while being lighter at a year, will be bigger framed mature.
065 We see two negatives so far; they have more hair coat than I prefer in the SE; as did the sire at yearling,
040 before shedding into a sleek, virile, athletic breeding machine with a back to nature attitude. About 1/3 of the
064 daughters, gentle otherwise, won`t let you tag their calves at birth; a problem solved simply by waiting


PEN 4...Model B, Balanced trait outcrossed bulls...selling choice until pen is sold….minimum price $1750


014 We will always have some outcrossed bulls for various reasons; most usually to add some growth and frame
029 for terminal use beyond the level of our model A cow lines. However, in the case of the first 5 bulls listed in
044 this pen; the purpose was to experiment with an infusion of New Zealand genetics; known for feet and fertility, .
076 in year round grazing.The first three bulls look the part; thick, muscular, slick haired, with extra body capacity ;
104 and width. The 076 and 104 are bigger framed steming from the dam`s influence.


PEN 4a...Model B, Balanced trait outcrossed bulls...selling choice until pen is sold….minimum price $1750
4 These bulls are sired by a higher EPD growth bull. They have a touch more frame and yearling weight; our
5 limited knowledge of the female usefulness from such individuals creates the suggestion to use
1 in terminal fashion
120



Pen 5...Model A, sureshot calving ease bulls by KA Unwanted, selling choice til pen is sold….minimum price $1750


035 The sons of Unwanted are small framed, light birthweight, and well balanced in their conformation. The
039 daughters of Unwanted are beautifully made, nice uddered, 1100 lb cows...that`s the size many farmers say
052 they prefer, yet the bulls that would make them are largely unwanted...therefore, these bulls are for those
086 situations where unassisted calving of two year old heifers is the absolute priority; and the owner expects a
128 smaller calf to sell; compensated by having more calves to sell with less human and bovine misery at calving.




Pen 6...Model C, pure &X Charolais, selling choice until pen is sold….minimum price $1750


108 He suits me perfectly; calm, moderate in all traits
106 A purebred , yellow in color; a stud of a beef terminal, with moderate birth weight
109 7/8 Charolais that will do about the same job as the bulls above
111 3/4 Charolais with more Angus characteristics than the above bulls
Pen 6a Simmental-Angus cross bulls

160 these two half blood cross bulls represent a successful attempt to add more growth and frame for terminal
146 production from moderate Angus cows; using all the genetic possibilities to cross with; rather than limiting
oneself to only the cattle registered as Angus to cross with; not much difference than mainstream Angus crossing.
015 these ¼ blood Simmental , ¾ blood Angus are not discernible from moderate Angus bulls; and will breed
025 accordingly. They are part of an on-going home experiment measuring the consistency and production
044 of crossbred bulls that add more muscle to the average Angus...why spend thousands of dollars for something
registered, that can be created economically by cross breeding; the study is on going; both cattle and human reasoning.

Heifer lots 1, 2...ten Model A heifers weighing approximately 700 lb will be sorted into lots of 5 by size and type minimum price $1100
Heifer lots 3, 4...ten KA sired heifers weighing approximately 700 lb will be sorted into lots of 5 by size and type
minimum price $1000
Heifer lot 5...6 to 8 Model A bred heifers calving 4/15 to 5/15 will sell indivdually...minimum $1500

just an idea but you may want to reconsider the bit about bulls not meeting the minimum bid will be available after the sale for the minimum bid, a couple years ago we changed the criteria to 'bulls not sold will be available for the average price of those sold on the day', this way bidding is encouraged as many times the buyers get a better deal through bidding and buying in the sale than pen picking afterwards. I'm sure you've considered this and have your reasons.

robert wrote:

just an idea but you may want to reconsider the bit about bulls not meeting the minimum bid will be available after the sale for the minimum bid, a couple years ago we changed the criteria to 'bulls not sold will be available for the average price of those sold on the day', this way bidding is encouraged as many times the buyers get a better deal through bidding and buying in the sale than pen picking afterwards. I'm sure you've considered this and have your reasons.

no, I had not thought of that Robert, and that is an excellent idea, thanks...I used to have a lot of after sale etc before I started "selling choice of the pen" because I could never make a sale order that would coincide, with buyers wishes...so good bulls would be passed while three buyers waited on "the one"; someone paid too much, and two were either left without a bull, or got an unsold at the minimum...
I`ll edit this to add...there isn`t any of "the ones" here...pretty much an all or nothing deal...among many mistakes I`ve made an early one was attempting to buy one of the 3 or 4 "best" bulls at Larry`s sales...most of us have been down that trail...
Someone asked today if there was a bull or two, out just really, really top cows...isn`t that the bulls the industry is always using and promoting? so after 50 years of performance testing and using bulls out of really top cows, why aren`t all the performance cows really good now?

someday, over the rainbow...



is he all colors, or no colors? like, Jerry Lee, I just know he`s what I like...

all the world loves a cross, even an"Angus" cross...



then there`s the boys that make the girls that eat the grass and raise the beef when
bred to the daddy bulls above

he ain`t heavy, but he`s the brother to some future cows here...


they sure aren`t tanks, but they must be scouts...cause they spend a lot of time sniffing the wind...



funny, some of the tank lovers were interested in Shoshones...oh, that`s right, back when they had registration papers{the final say on all things good, pure, and a step by step history of why great cattle are bred...and yes, the same applies to the crappy ones, but I don`t hear them discussed too often

yes, we grow grass, I have vowed myself to becoming the best grass grower in this county...getting there without chicken manure{phewwww Otto } or fertilizer so far...



Lasater said his pedigrees were in the name...until I get there, if ever, mine are in the ear...I would tell Bootheel that
this calf is strongly related to Sniff the Wind, but if I did, he might break my pedigree code...

The dam of GAR 5050 Data Manager:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF3iNR0wFak

Notice the tail switch or lack thereof.

the dam of Louie 826...you darn tootin that bull calf hiding back behind her is by her son; he`s not shy at all; he just heard Larry say you shouldn`t show all the linebreeding you are doing to the public...but if a cow like her, is not bred back to her sire or son, WHAT A WASTE {when time is shorter than wisdom...using that relationship, we ALL get wiser eventually }


yes, she`s too fat...we have eggs; will multiply

This young fellow has a Sniffy attitude, and a set of legs to take him where ever his nose leads him...
his mother is 13; calved yesterday


I guess this one would be scored a 0 on the scale of pinkeye resistance, but he sure looked fly resistant yesterday..
how do you score fly resistance when there are no flies?


I have a simple scoring system...
1...if the calf and cow have characteristics I prefer, he stays a bull..
2...if the calf is not up to par, but the cow has characteristics I prefer, he`s a steer, and she stays to try again
3..if the calf and cow are below par, calfs a steer and the cow goes
now there, an index designed especially to please df


the dam of the bad eyed yearling above; 12 years old, calf number 11, and smart enough to avoid that hemlock
she`s standing amongst...yelp, if the final scorer {the buyer}
culls her son, then the two are going to run in the breeding pasture together...
if all these registered, pedigreed cattle are so good, why is inbreeding considered akin to drinking the hemlock?
ohh that`s right, the registered KOOL-AID is sugar coated

sooo, if genetics runs amuck, and yellow produces an outlier, we call it green...you just can`t get away from having to practice some selection..



this one`s true colors came shining through



another true colors bull

Mike,

I think this video clip portrays the same feeling of people switching to the ABC's of cattle breeding from the registered business. Lots of fear initially but pure exhileration when done.


http://thetalentcode.com/2012/03/26/how-to-be-brave/

Mark Day wrote:

Mike,

I think this video clip portrays the same feeling of people switching to the ABC's of cattle breeding from the registered business. Lots of fear initially but pure exhileration when done.


http://thetalentcode.com/2012/03/26/how-to-be-brave/

I saw that video on TV the other night; it has sure made the internet rounds...I`ve thought there was a thin line between bravery and foolishness then the other emotion is just being damn tired of the BS and not going to take it anymore...
MS and Rooster made their appearance today {DV, what a nice bull he is} and john was talking why is one bull genetically worth $50,000 and the next one bred like him worth $7500...
I remember that burr headed gal promoting weight loss shouting

STOP THE INSANITY

What better goal could we have here...

a genetic journey
starting here


through here



to get to here




to produce this; one of the hairy peas in a pod of hairy peas



and the female counterpart



on the way to getting back to the beginning




here`s why I`m not too worried about the hair shedding

yearling to 3 yr old change...

Really enjoying the pictures/words, breed something to Rooster while he's there, all he's going to get here is the Esters that the genetic rustlers can't have. DV near work galore and Esters soar

the remedy for close breeding failures...a BIG shot of heterosis...but then, registered breeders already know this; and now with the "Angus breed" variation at it`s widest point in history, they can keep the color of their crossbreds CAB black... but just in case someone wants a $2000 shot of heterosis instead of a $200, 000 dose...here`s another Keeney {note the name OT; he`s my bull; my breeding; I sell him on my reputation; and I stand behind his success or failure} charolais


the first letter in INDEPENDENCE is

I

Dennis Voss wrote:

Really enjoying the pictures/words, breed something to Rooster while he's there, all he's going to get here is the Esters that the genetic rustlers can't have. DV near work galore and Esters soar

After seeing Rooster, I`m thinking of selling half my Char cows, and not only buying MS`s cull bulls, but his cull heifers as well...yeah, the Ester selling here would be a rustler`s dream, but instead he`s just for a commercial producer`s benefit; and that make`s life good...

I want to thank Dan Brown in Ohio for paying me my finest compliment ever last night...by emphatically saying, "Mike, I`m sure glad you aren`t registering your cattle"...Dan "gets it"...

MKeeney wrote:

Mark Day wrote:

Mike,

I think this video clip portrays the same feeling of people switching to the ABC's of cattle breeding from the registered business. Lots of fear initially but pure exhileration when done.


http://thetalentcode.com/2012/03/26/how-to-be-brave/

I saw that video on TV the other night; it has sure made the internet rounds...I`ve thought there was a thin line between bravery and foolishness then the other emotion is just being damn tired of the BS and not going to take it anymore...
MS and Rooster made their appearance today {DV, what a nice bull he is} and john was talking why is one bull genetically worth $50,000 and the next one bred like him worth $7500...
I remember that burr headed gal promoting weight loss shouting

STOP THE INSANITY

What better goal could we have here...

I assume Rooster is a CH bull?

df wrote:

MKeeney wrote:

Mark Day wrote:

Mike,

I think this video clip portrays the same feeling of people switching to the ABC's of cattle breeding from the registered business. Lots of fear initially but pure exhileration when done.


http://thetalentcode.com/2012/03/26/how-to-be-brave/

I saw that video on TV the other night; it has sure made the internet rounds...I`ve thought there was a thin line between bravery and foolishness then the other emotion is just being damn tired of the BS and not going to take it anymore...
MS and Rooster made their appearance today {DV, what a nice bull he is} and john was talking why is one bull genetically worth $50,000 and the next one bred like him worth $7500...
I remember that burr headed gal promoting weight loss shouting

STOP THE INSANITY

What better goal could we have here...

I assume Rooster is a CH bull?

he`s much more than that..he`s a Mean Spirit Charolais bull

always good to see what the competition is doing...



REG. ANGUS BULLS- VET CHECKED, SEMEN CHECKED,SHOTS,WORMED READY TO GO TO WORK A'I sired out of A'I sired cows ,
Predestined,Bextor,Mandan,095, $2500



is the current tank movement designed to cure the above, or would several bu of corn be easier? or is the tank movement the result of selection for yw while attempting to hold down cow size?



is now even driving the mainstream?

I suppose being independent creates a lot of Unwanteds in a breeder`s herd; I realize being wrong does also...

but going out every morning in the pasture and tagging the heifers calves after a good night`s sleep just feels so right...trading mainstream performance for commercial profitability...



and just when you think Unwanted is a lost cause, comes another email testimonial...

We'll be down Saturday but can't make the Friday evening gathering. As always looking for heifer bulls. BUT need serious low input credentials. Look like we're adding a second Nicholas county farm (700+ total) and shifting back to spring calving in that environment.

The little man daughters are extremely easy keeping full bodies cows in the 1150 # range.

--
Ralph Quillin
Quillin Leather
1929 Main Street
Paris, KY 40361
http://kygraziers.com/kgshop/

113...4 legs, 2 nuts, one stick, 3 good shots of Encore, taking a first step toward climbing a KY hill; a butte might be too demanding

power to power....



same power to finesse....

MKeeney wrote:

he ain`t heavy, but he`s the brother to some future cows here...


they sure aren`t tanks, but they must be scouts...cause they spend a lot of time sniffing the wind...



funny, some of the tank lovers were interested in Shoshones...oh, that`s right, back when they had registration papers{the final say on all things good, pure, and a step by step history of why great cattle are bred...and yes, the same applies to the crappy ones, but I don`t hear them discussed too often

Chalk this up to comments from the peanut gallery, but so far the 78 bull is the most pleasing of looks to me. I'm thinking about it from the building of the female base in a herd.