2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale

good point Tom...I`ve always wrote ads that appealed to me and never worried too much about appealing to anyone else...I suspect it`s too late to change; given I don`t even get the AJ anymore; I get all the current registered updates I can stand reading Pat and Foxx @ acs

MKeeney wrote:

why all the congratulations for having a high registered sale average? wasn`t that at the commercial producer`s expense? was the congratulations for the genetics; which were the same before the sale as after; or for pulling off the con of selling stock for more than they were wort?h

That's brilliant Mike - like a wall hanger but with enough stuff left to ponder.

Grassfarmer wrote:

MKeeney wrote:

why all the congratulations for having a high registered sale average? wasn`t that at the commercial producer`s expense? was the congratulations for the genetics; which were the same before the sale as after; or for pulling off the con of selling stock for more than they were wort?h

That's brilliant Mike - like a wall hanger but with enough stuff left to ponder.

It is funny that the superior Disadvantaged crowd can calculate a base price for bulls yet will not see that they could avoid the sale manager, clipping costs and other costs like retouched AJ pictures and comic strip writers to coin sale catalog footnotes. Just take the known base price, add needed profit and let folks buy in a more realistic fashion. But, wait, they want to be like the AAA Bad Seven while not being like the AAA Bad Seven.

Will, if you still read over here, OT, if you can get your password to work, JL, if you get through talking with good young dry lot guys and other decent commercial cattlemen who like OK do-all cattle, ... how about running that by over there at Disadvantaged on the Foxx Network as a way to create a war to end all wars and poke a deflating hole in the likes of the AAA Bad Seven. Get enough bulls selling for normal prices and the Bad Seven (and a lot more folks) will not be able to survive on real money: two birds - one stone! Uh- Oh, I think I here the opposite of Ross's giant sucking sound; I potentially hear a large hissing sound of escaping air all over the USA! I guess it will never work: too many dispersals. But at least give it a try.

I  went to a real sale today; something several more little registered breeders should try...bought a load of KA influenced heifers weighing 785 @ $191.50 from Irving Collins for Harold Trump in MO; had $2/lb to spend; where`s the Angus regional manager to do what they do best...run fake bids; when you need them?...Irvin runs  200 cows of his own; plus a 100 of mine on shares; no better cowboy or harder worker around here is known by me...

I thought Irvin ran a one man show; and in fact,  literally, but not figuratively, does...but I got introduced to the help today; both female. Susan appears a partner of sorts in the operation; and Ashley, seems to be cow girl in chief; checking cows horseback from farm to farm...in at least an old man`s dementia type fantasies, it just somehow seems that a call from Ashley about a cattle problem she needed help with wouldn`t be so bad but Rod; please don`t let your mind wander as far as imaging I might actually want to ride a horse again

The heavy cut of steers weighed 875 {no epds; no performance of course     } and only brought 186.50...kinda disappointing...the 738 load brought 213.50...market toppers of what I saw sell...ps..muddy, muddy, muddy
Before you start putting a spin on the total price per head; my cousin sold his OCC influenced  pud-a wug type heifers; older, weighing 910 @ 164; put the pencil to that equation....
so the gravy train is ending; but hot biscuits with butter ain`t all bad...

MKeeney wrote:

MKeeney wrote:

I tend to think that the consequences of our selections are recorded accurately in our type ...

getting a kick out of the traction this assertion has gathered at acs...young guys like John and Ben just can`t be expected to know that the traditional mainstream demands

PERFECTION......just as we do in Kentucky...

always staying positive...Cat fans    

there`s cheap like me...and around every crook in the road...there`s cheaper; registered too

http://lexington.craigslist.org/grd/4929540323.html

competition; it does a body good

If you AI, then use a bull...

and can`t tell the difference in the resulting calves, why did you AI to begin with?

Danny brought Pete home from breeding Hereford cows the other afternoon; he`s in tip top breeding shape; all 1250 lbs of him @ 4 years of age...I can`t find his calves by looking for the differences in the yearling heifers weighing 700 plus now...

...................  Shoshone Prince 6135 AAA 11834563  
....... Shoshone Pyus 6157 AAA 12647010    
.................... Shoshone Prudence 6157 AAA 11637031  
..Shoshone Pivot 6159 AAA 13746428    
...................  Shoshone Echo 1702 AAA 10900300  
........ Shoshone Prudence 6159 AAA 11637034    
...................  Shoshone Prudence 6144 AAA #11303854  
   
....................  Shoshone Echo 1702 AAA 10900300  
......... Shoshone 99-2028 AAA 11303764    
.................... Shoshone Eileen 2028 AAA 10564785  
..Shoshone Prudence 6157 AAA 11637031    
...................  Shoshone Echo 1702 AAA 10900300  
.......... Shoshone Prudence 6146 AAA 11303849    
.................... Shoshone Prudence ME61-62 AAA 10017009

Of Course I`m not looking for their ear tags {another number that gets in a cattle breeders way}, I`m looking for characteristics that separate them ; they are not present...I`m not breeding papers to papers; I`m breeding characteristics to the same characteristics...in this new paradigm , there may be some pedigrees that by chance look like the above; if they look like Pete, they`ll likely get steered as inbreeding seeks it`s own sellable level...not Pete`s fault, just a buying population mesmerized by hybridized performance over close bred prepotency...
the old traditionalists can`t understand this simplicity of inbreeding finding it`s own {real, NOT paper } sustainable{and sellable?} level ; that`s why tulip`s post is quite dear to me...

"Very simple ideas lie within the reach only of complex minds."
(Remy de Gourmont)

and

"The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion it has taken place."
(George Bernard Shaw)

I have no illusion meaningful communication can ever take place between those developing a new paradigm of selection versus those mired in the papered and numbered traditions of the past...

I am happy to contribute; even if it is by quoting older and wiser people than my own humble self. Tulip, in the vicinity of thinking that the consequences of our selections are recorded accurately in our type ...

As opposed to those who's consequences are recorded inaccurately in their hype? .......................

In the sage words of the Stud stock auctioneer for the company with whom we mainly deal, to a captive audience of stud breeders on the recent herd tour, "remember that the breeding decisions you make this year have to be marketed by me in 3 years" ........................... (2 yo bulls) This was in follow up to a presentation by some bright young things about a "new and improved" index which is soon to be released .................... do I need to mention that the auctioneer has been around for 50 years and has an innate eye and sense for cattle and has spent the last year or so working closely with large station holders trying to remedy some of their hype bull buying over the past 10 - 15 years?

Watching the chatter on genomic - the sentiments being expressed as a groundswell there, are becoming a tidal wave in NZ.

Proving an even greater adage ................ you can only fool some of the people for some of the time ................ and another personal favourite of mine .................... what goes around comes around

the traditional,all important first step in cattle breeding...

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=932374073492077

id that calf then of course get whatever kind of sample is needed for the genomic evaluation...don`t want an important piece like this left out of the training set...

Man there is an easy way of doing things and then there is ................................ didn't see any scales surely that was not just a commercial operation - three people to tag a calf? Do folk work for free in the US?

pukerimu wrote:

Man there is an easy way of doing things and then there is ................................ didn't see any scales surely that was not just a commercial operation - three people to tag a calf? Do folk work for free in the US?

some even live, let alone work, for free

the dam of one of the little wispy CE Tru-X bulls that will make Wagyu and longhorns bulls obsolete for calving ease ...tougher than a Wulf Jersey; hardier than the feed bunk Angus; and we already know what she can produce commercially bred Limmy...but she`s parent stock; not production stock...
 too small and too much milk you say? in and of herself, I agree....but think what she, through her sons, will be bred to; to calve and correct cow problems...



a classic LL case of looking at the egg; and being able to see the eagle...hope you like her hair; hair is natural on cattle you know; in spite of all the crap pictures and videos you see in catalogs and the internet from so-called performance breeders...

looks like an old boy who has fended a few young`uns away from his cows...



courtesy of Mike Wilson, Bainville, MT...
Mike, any pigs yet?

try as I might I could not cast any light on this picture of a daughter ready to pop...

..

a little different type AND grass than Megan`s, eh? my type but different feed than mine, for sure...shed more light on the cow or subject, Mike?

We like hair / coat - especially like to see a strong curly coat around a bulls neck and enough hair on their faces so that they have the "curl/ whirl" somewhere on their forehead

a little thread drift here as the luck of the Irish just ran out...

http://www.kentucky.com/2015/03/28/3773335/flame-free-alternative-lexington.html

customers, count your savings; according to acs Sinclair bulls averaged 7400 Saturday; must have passed their semen check first time this year...and Mr. Burgess, the expert? why yes, his cows are pretty good; almost as good as his neighbor Rod`s

when boredom sets in, and when in search of a little free advertising, it seems Name your Sire is a handy little game...so I might as well play it too...

this years new sires are
89, 90, 104, 123, 127, 9, and 17...whatever is left will be the backups...so yeah, I have my favorites too...but they`ll all be for sale next year as two year olds and be replaced by the babies being born...14{the dam of 90}, and 541{two sons already used; another currently pending sale} are already on the keep list...


The Shoshone Direction  

a) Instead of mixing a variety of types from within a diverse breed to do all things for all people, our direction remains toward stabilizing a type to be a more identical "breed" to do a specific thing for a specific segment ....better.

b) Instead of selecting cattle with the most different EPD or highest ratios, our direction is to select those cattle with the least difference from the preferred type.

c) Instead of exploiting the temporary effects of heterogeneity to improve marketability by avoiding close breeding, our direction is to reduce the effects of heterogeneity  to improve sustainability by close breeding.

d)  Instead of trying to win registered production contests at all costs, our direction is to improve commercial production efficiency by reducing costs.

e)  Instead of breeding by the numbers to change averages, our direction is to learn from the numbers to validate the value of our averages.

f)  Instead of mongrelizing characteristics to produce more from more which reduces consistency, our direction is to demongrelize the parent stock to provide systems with the option to produce more from less while improving consistency.

g) Instead of breeding for uniquely rare, outcrossed extremes or trait leading individuals for inflated registered values, our direction is to breed for uniquely rare, close bred, more prepotent populations for genuine commercial values.

h)  Instead of following the tradition of maintaining public registration papers to uphold an artifical registered value, our direction will no longer provide individual public registration papers in order to maintain genetic control to achieve our basic objectives.            

Form follows function - Numeric EPD follows the selection criteria, they do not pre-determine it:

Larry Leonhardt

JH once told me that if everyone was waiting for the perfect bull to breed their cows; none would get bred...I think a better question is what do you get for the extra $10,000 for the "top" over the average of the bulls sold?

Oh, somewhere in this favored land the sun is shining bright;
The band is playing somewhere, and somewhere hearts are light,
And somewhere men are laughing, and somewhere children shout;
But there is no joy in Mudville — mighty Casey has struck out.

but no pain for the young men  that a few million dollars won`t soon  cure....what was once sport, is now business...

Mike, I think the difference in the game was that 3 of the starters for Wisconsin were from Wisconsin...none of the starters for KU were from Kentucky. The difference in playing for something and playing for self.
Cal will reload.

RobertMac wrote:

Mike, I think the difference in the game was that 3 of the starters for Wisconsin were from Wisconsin...none of the starters for KU were from Kentucky. The difference in playing for something and playing for self.
Cal will reload.

not the difference in the game; just the difference in how the teams are publicly perceived...requiring a year of college for a future nba player is about as useless as papers on cattle