what true line means to you?

pukerimu wrote:

Ahhh the fickleness of facebook - where one liker goes another one comes - it is all but part of the "game"

"facebook friends" is most superficial terminology I`ve encountered...I mean, give me a break, there`s no DISLIKE button; but it`s good writing exercise for me; having to positively write what I like; to convey what I don`t like...

Anyone can sort. Very few really breed. Even fewer stay the course ...

the principles are exceedingly simple; the difficulty lies in the application...cattle breeding is such a simple, fun task; relatively unimportant in the big picture of life; except to those of us for whom it is our passion...how could anyone become discouraged? but we do, I do...the last few minutes of this Sapolsky  talk is so inspiring to carry on...or just be another, ordinary , everyday primate  !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY1x8k79bZE

Larry always saw enough good happening in the breeding program to continue; I see enough things happening with cattlemen accepting/buying the tru-line approach to be optimistic; no one ever said how big the pot of gold was at the end of the rainbow; and it`s to be shared anyway, not hoarded by the few...

It is never to be expected in a revolution that every man is to change his opinion at the same moment. There never yet was any truth or any principle so irresistibly obvious that all men believed it at once
TP, First Principles of Government (1795

MKeeney wrote:

It is never to be expected in a revolution that every man is to change his opinion at the same moment. There never yet was any truth or any principle so irresistibly obvious that all men believed it at once
TP, First Principles of Government (1795

What a pleasant call this morning from another young man tired of supporting the bureaucratic bs of the those who make a living
off the cattle business...the AAA, the KCA, the ETC; and who knows what it takes to make a living with cows; how enjoyable to hear and substantiate his observations from AAA games and numbers, from feet to fescue use, to fall versus spring calving and fertility; maternal-terminal breeding ...the tru-line recruitment goal is two per year; this being June, the quota is currently on track

it can`t get much better or bigger{calves} producing straight breds in Rod`s environment...

http://www.northernlivestockvideo.com/catalog/?lot=27097&saleid=985

you can`t judge a program by it`s lot 1...but if you believe the numbers, lot 3 is best...so, they too,
must believe more in type than numbers

http://halfmannredangus.com/lotsvideos/?sale_year=Fall+2016&post_id=4519&submit=GO

http://halfmannredangus.com/lotsvideos/?sale_year=Fall+2016&post_id=4521&submit=GO

hope you can see this...thx True North

1st Shoshone Balboa, 1980, sire-dau mating for maternal
2 nd Many times Balboa linebred 2013, for maternal
Little change is little progress to some...when you get it about right, consistent renewal is great progress for me...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1120680164646014&set=pcb.1120684367978927&type=3&theater

it seems the world over, cattle breeding programs are judged by the top selling bull, the one most unlike the rest of the offering, and of the breed...the Tru-line maternal breeder judges success by the uniformity of a group from bottom to top...

this is as close to tru-line as tradition will allow...

from facebook...
Dear Fellow Angus Breeders,

Happy Halloween! Today I am overflowing with great Angus news! A $2 million plus weekend! The Quaker Hill Rampage Sale in Virginia
took in $850,000 and averaged over $16,000. Tanner Farms in Mississippi grossed over $600,000. The Marda and Spring Creek’s Sale in
Wisconsin had a landmark sale averaging over $5,000. The 4 Brands Gathering Sale in Arkansas grossed over $250,000 – one of Arkansas’ best ever.

Congratulations to Angus Live on setting a new world record for an internet sale at Colburn Cattle Co. Sale in California!

This past weekend there was a super Angus Show at the American Royal in Kansas City.
This weekend don’t forget:
Nov. 4th - ZWT Ranch Angus Bull and Female Sale, Crossville, TN
Nov. 5th - Decades of Excellence Volume XVII Angus Sale, at Fancy Free Farms, Unionville, TN
Nov. 5th - Pitts Angus Sale, Hermitage, MO
I continue to work on my campaign for the Board of Directors of the American Angus Association. I am pleased to report that I have my letter
out. If you didn’t get a copy and would like one, I will be more than happy to send you one. Just call 816/532-0811. I visited over 40 states this
fall and the election is one week from today. Any help you can give me will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Tom Burke

P.S. I will see you in Indianapolis.


did I say tru-line? I meant tru-lyin...The above in print and in person is highly applauded by scientist and servant alike,  silliness and sport reigns in greater
degree than ever in the registered business, long live the king... it would be wiser to fill a jesters spot in the royal fallacy than be a tru-line breeder if fortune
be your goal...

Since Lee Pitts is in the BS/entertainment , I doubt he was sending a subliminal message here, so I suppose PARADOX is a better word for what I got out of the piece...

the rise in price has made it difficult on cheapskates like my friend Patch who never spent more than a $1,550 on a bull before in his life. Despite being one of the richest guys in the county he's a sub-optimal spender who wears big patches on his drugstore pants.

http://cattletoday.com/archive/2016/November/CT3397.php

Shively has written a "how to" book if any one wants a copy to see what tru-line means to him...

This 15 page brochure contains my basic ideas/opinions about starting an Angus or other breed seed stock herd . Advice like SELECT SEED STOCK POSSESSING THE BASIC TRAITS NECESSARY FOR PROFITABLE TROUBLE FREE PRODUCTION IN YOUR REGION OF THE COUNTRY or GIVEN A CHOICE IT IS BETTER TO STICK WITH GENETICS THAT ARE TIME TESTED AND PROVEN INSTEAD OF GAMBLING ON WHAT IS TRENDY OR POPULAR. is a sample of thought in the booklet. Topics covered are The Blueprint, A Foundation, Selection, Becoming A Breeder, Marketing as well as several others. It is geared toward beginning breeders or maybe as something someone mentoring a younger breeder might share. It is in the proof reading stage so I might have some ready in a month or so. I intend to print on good paper and bind with plastic rings at least to start out and am guessing about $10 will cover shipping and printing. I tested it on John Cotton a perfect guinea pig on our Diamond D trip and he liked it . It sure won't make you into an instant Express or Gardiner. Just to be fully disclosed usually when I put a bunch of time into something like this and present it to my closest friends one person really likes it. I guess a thumbs up from someone like Larry Leonhardt, Ed Oliver, Dennis Voss or John Cotton is motivation enough for me to keep typing my crap.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=152877235185736&set=a.101578043648989.1073741828.100013903801654&type=3&theater

MKeeney wrote:

Shively has written a "how to" book if any one wants a copy to see what tru-line means to him...

This 15 page brochure contains my basic ideas/opinions about starting an Angus or other breed seed stock herd . Advice like SELECT SEED STOCK POSSESSING THE BASIC TRAITS NECESSARY FOR PROFITABLE TROUBLE FREE PRODUCTION IN YOUR REGION OF THE COUNTRY or GIVEN A CHOICE IT IS BETTER TO STICK WITH GENETICS THAT ARE TIME TESTED AND PROVEN INSTEAD OF GAMBLING ON WHAT IS TRENDY OR POPULAR. is a sample of thought in the booklet. Topics covered are The Blueprint, A Foundation, Selection, Becoming A Breeder, Marketing as well as several others. It is geared toward beginning breeders or maybe as something someone mentoring a younger breeder might share. It is in the proof reading stage so I might have some ready in a month or so. I intend to print on good paper and bind with plastic rings at least to start out and am guessing about $10 will cover shipping and printing. I tested it on John Cotton a perfect guinea pig on our Diamond D trip and he liked it . It sure won't make you into an instant Express or Gardiner. Just to be fully disclosed usually when I put a bunch of time into something like this and present it to my closest friends one person really likes it. I guess a thumbs up from someone like Larry Leonhardt, Ed Oliver, Dennis Voss or John Cotton is motivation enough for me to keep typing my crap.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=152877235185736&set=a.101578043648989.1073741828.100013903801654&type=3&theater

I had in mind to write a "how to, know all" breeding publication for the gathering this summer, but I couldn`t reach a decision on
whether to write it on both sides of a 3x5 card, or on one side of a 4x6 card, so just decided to skip it altogether...

MKeeney wrote:

MKeeney wrote:

Shively has written a "how to" book if any one wants a copy to see what tru-line means to him...

This 15 page brochure contains my basic ideas/opinions about starting an Angus or other breed seed stock herd . Advice like SELECT SEED STOCK POSSESSING THE BASIC TRAITS NECESSARY FOR PROFITABLE TROUBLE FREE PRODUCTION IN YOUR REGION OF THE COUNTRY or GIVEN A CHOICE IT IS BETTER TO STICK WITH GENETICS THAT ARE TIME TESTED AND PROVEN INSTEAD OF GAMBLING ON WHAT IS TRENDY OR POPULAR. is a sample of thought in the booklet. Topics covered are The Blueprint, A Foundation, Selection, Becoming A Breeder, Marketing as well as several others. It is geared toward beginning breeders or maybe as something someone mentoring a younger breeder might share. It is in the proof reading stage so I might have some ready in a month or so. I intend to print on good paper and bind with plastic rings at least to start out and am guessing about $10 will cover shipping and printing. I tested it on John Cotton a perfect guinea pig on our Diamond D trip and he liked it . It sure won't make you into an instant Express or Gardiner. Just to be fully disclosed usually when I put a bunch of time into something like this and present it to my closest friends one person really likes it. I guess a thumbs up from someone like Larry Leonhardt, Ed Oliver, Dennis Voss or John Cotton is motivation enough for me to keep typing my crap.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=152877235185736&set=a.101578043648989.1073741828.100013903801654&type=3&theater

I had in mind to write a "how to, know all" breeding publication for the gathering this summer, but I couldn`t reach a decision on
whether to write it on both sides of a 3x5 card, or on one side of a 4x6 card, so just decided to skip it altogether...

Mike, you're just jealous. Some folks just know stuff more better than others. I was telling a friend yesterday a story about a Charolais cattle breeder I met who knows stuff more better. I was visiting in his pastures probably five years ago. He had (and has) nice cattle, and he takes good care of them. He was describing some mating to me, and I noted that he was inbreeding to so and so, which was interesting. He then taught me something: "Linebreeding can be a good thing, but only if the person doing it knows what they are doing. Otherwise they'll just mess things up worse." Then, dramatically pointing back at his chest, he says "I know what I'm doing."

I was glad he taught me that. If I have some questions, I'm going to give him a call. He should write a manual too, I think.

I'm thinking seriously about writing a "how not to" book.

EddieM wrote:

I'm thinking seriously about writing a "how not to" book.

Go for it, man. Or you could simply reference the Advantage site...Foxx in particular.

outsidethebox wrote:

EddieM wrote:

I'm thinking seriously about writing a "how not to" book.

Go for it, man. Or you could simply reference the Advantage site...Foxx in particular.

Would be as long as Gone With The Wind. Might have to call it "A Lot of Wind".

EddieM wrote:

outsidethebox wrote:

EddieM wrote:

I'm thinking seriously about writing a "how not to" book.

Go for it, man. Or you could simply reference the Advantage site...Foxx in particular.

Would be as long as Gone With The Wind.  Might have to call it "A Lot of Wind".

"Dust in the Wind"

Tom in serious mode, 2010
I think breeding is half art and half science. When most people start out, they try to do everything with science because they haven't developed any artistic talent yet. If you never get beyond this science only stage you never become a breeder. And you probably create a lot of really crappy cattle in the process. Mike is right that time is the most valuable commodity in cattle breeding, the only way to learn the "art" side is with time, experience, and learning from your mistakes. This brings me to why I weigh. It is not to show everyone else how great I am (Jim), it is to show myself where I need to improve. It is a system of checks and balances to make sure that I correctly develop my artistic side and don't continue down a wrong path under false illusions. I'm sure that there are some experienced breeders that can always guess a BW to within 2 or 3 pounds, a weaning weight to within 10 or 20, and a cow weight to within 50, but I can't yet. And most guys that think they can are full of shit. So I weigh because it helps me to hone my craft and exposes my mistakes (breeding and management) so that I can learn from them. When I look at my data, I'm usually in the pasture not at the computer. I'm looking at relationships between cow weights and birth weights and weaning weights, trying to figure out the trends and if they match the EPD's. I look forward to the day when I can rely on the artist inside me to create beautiful, consistent, efficient little cows; but until then I'd better keep double checking. A Picasso by any other name is just a weird, ugly painting...TD


Bob Hough.... Guessed weights don't have a normal biological distribution and variation. At Red Angus we worked with CSU to develop a series of simple statistical filters to remove those guessed weights and other data that had non-biological properties prior to the genetic evaluation.

Mike Keeney.. I`m wondering what knowledge or breeding experience CSU had to determine what is a normal biological distribution of variation...whose "training set"? I wonder what CSU would have done when I reported the weighed, dead 137 lb heifer calf by PDBS some 35 years ago? eliminate as an anomaly outside the reporting data? it was not outside the economic impact on my herd, and others had these rare freaks in those days as well, that I never have now...in fact, a purpose of a few breeders would be to reduce variation in measured traits; just because that is opposite mainstream direction, has academia determined it can`t be done, because they have never measured it ..or never studied it...or never recognized it as a problem ? example, BW average doesn`t cause much dystocia, but variation from that average does...

We go through life seeing the phenotypic fin and trying to find ways to change the whole genetic shark.

something to talk or read about on the internet by a few people...

discussed with JRN the heifer calving which is going well...briefly discussed the "IF`s" of life, all succeeding IF`s influenced by the preceding IF...if I hadn`t took V0-AG cause it was easy, if I hadn`t went to that sale where I heard of Titan, if 5000$ hadn`t floated my way to buy a good bull in partnership, if I hadn`t given DV the Encore semen, if he hadn`t been the experimenting type willing to step outside the mainstream, if, if, if, on and on...then found this

“If you could do it, I suppose, it would be a good idea to live your life in a straight line - starting, say, in the Dark Wood of Error, and proceeding by logical steps through Hell and Purgatory and into Heaven. Or you could take the King's Highway past the appropriately named dangers, toils, and snares, and finally cross the River of Death and enter the Celestial City. But that is not the way I have done it, so far. I am a pilgrim, but my pilgrimage has been wandering and unmarked. Often what has looked like a straight line to me has been a circling or a doubling back. I have been in the Dark Wood of Error any number of times. I have known something of Hell, Purgatory, and Heaven, but not always in that order. The names of many snares and dangers have been made known to me, but I have seen them only in looking back. Often I have not known where I was going until I was already there. I have had my share of desires and goals, but my life has come to me or I have gone to it mainly by way of mistakes and surprises. Often I have received better than I deserved. Often my fairest hopes have rested on bad mistakes. I am an ignorant pilgrim, crossing a dark valley. And yet for a long time, looking back, I have been unable to shake off the feeling that I have been led - make of that what you will.”
― Wendell Berry, Jayber Crow

another memory, laughing over coffee of how easily even the master could be charmed; not cynics like me ...have we ever sifted through a bunch of sprinters and attention deprived  
sniffers to find just one tru-liner...

They will be moved either 110 miles or 150 miles.
Any thoughts?

yes, the obvious one is a difference of 40 miles...