Feminine Bulls?

If this has been discussed before, forgive me for missing it but give me your thoughts one more time. What causes feminine looking bulls? Bulls that don't have thick necks, bulls with narrow heads, bulls that plainly look very non-masculine. Shouldn't two year olds be expressing these masculine traits?

Breeders chasing marbling, extended growth, cause most of them to exist, when I use to ultra-sound my bulls, often the big girlie boys had the best marbling scores, The breeder type with coarse hair masculine the poorer marb.

chocolate cow wrote:

If this has been discussed before, forgive me for missing it but give me your thoughts one more time. What causes feminine looking bulls? Bulls that don't have thick necks, bulls with narrow heads, bulls that plainly look very non-masculine. Shouldn't two year olds be expressing these masculine traits?

Why 2yo? If a bull is fertile and possesses adequate libido, why is it necessary for that individual to express a degree of masculinity? My take this a reflection of showring bs from academia. Academia has traditionally supplied most of show judges. Recognition of the degree of masculinity makes the vocabulary seem impressive when spouting oral reasons. Mike Lorig

Dennis Voss wrote:

Breeders chasing marbling, extended growth, cause most of them to exist, when I use to ultra-sound my bulls, often the big girlie boys had the best marbling scores, The breeder type with coarse hair masculine the poorer marb.

a marbling bull from a marbling line...this kind of what you are referring to CC? BTW CC, are you breaking more stereotypes? I find it amusing that you are the only person here with their age listed in their on screen profile

Quote :

a marbling bull from a marbling line

I see the hair on the crest and shoulders that signal hormones. I just think it is an overfed fat bull.

EddieM wrote:

Quote :

a marbling bull from a marbling line

I see the hair on the crest and shoulders that signal hormones. I just think it is an overfed fat bull.

will a little bit of hormone go a long way? I don`t think so...

Is this the type we are discussing?

The judging team coach never supplied us with any descriptive terms for that type...Advanced Livestock Judging was a rated G {general audience} course...descriping that bull would require the use of profanity...

MKeeney wrote:

EddieM wrote:

Quote :

a marbling bull from a marbling line

I see the hair on the crest and shoulders that signal hormones. I just think it is an overfed fat bull.

will a little bit of hormone go a long way? I don`t think so...

The coarse oily hair and crest early in life are indications of maturity. I prefer animals that delay the onset of physical maturity. Why? They appear to remain agile and virile much longer. Mike Lorig

EddieM wrote:

Is this the type we are discussing?

With the glaring fault this bull possesses, I can't believe any common sense cattleman would use him, particularly in a breeder environment. However he does appear to be a ready teddy. Even polled bulls with clean sheaths are vulnerable.

EddieM wrote:

Is this the type we are discussing?

There are so many things wrong with this bull. He exemplifies all the wrong turns the mainstream angus breeder has made in the last 20 years. He is everything we did wrong in the 70's and 80's and for the life of me I can't understand why we would take the most popular breed, maybe ever and turn it into this type of animal that no one has ever wanted for long. He would make a fine draft animal and that is the only redeeming quaility I can see in this bull and there is such high demand for draft cattle these days but maybe that will be the next fad. I hope this isn't someones favorite bull here but he is awful.

Do you really think he'd be that great as a draft animal, or are you just trying to be nice?

Just saw this little guy for the first time yesterday, born January 2, first calf heifer, 93 lb BW. Sire is half Hoodoo, dam is full sister to my bull, not currently living at my place. I'll wait before making final judgment, but I'm thinking masculine enough.

I like him, Mean Spirit.

Jack McNamee wrote:

EddieM wrote:

Is this the type we are discussing?

There are so many things wrong with this bull. He exemplifies all the wrong turns the mainstream angus breeder has made in the last 20 years. He is everything we did wrong in the 70's and 80's and for the life of me I can't understand why we would take the most popular breed, maybe ever and turn it into this type of animal that no one has ever wanted for long. He would make a fine draft animal and that is the only redeeming quaility I can see in this bull and there is such high demand for draft cattle these days but maybe that will be the next fad. I hope this isn't someones favorite bull here but he is awful.

nice job Jack...not a single word of profanity; I could not have done it

Mean Spirit wrote:

Do you really think he'd be that great as a draft animal, or are you just trying to be nice?

Just saw this little guy for the first time yesterday, born January 2, first calf heifer, 93 lb BW. Sire is half Hoodoo, dam is full sister to my bull, not currently living at my place. I'll wait before making final judgment, but I'm thinking masculine enough.

I like his kind for my intended purposes...maybe 10 lbs too much of everything at birth?

Jack, The pictured black bull is a real poor Brangus or Angus/Brangus composite. No way that is an Angus.

Mean Spirit, Prob. not on my commercial cows.

Do you sell your bulls as yearlings Mean Spirit?

Not much of a seller of bulls, or anything else, so I sell when I can. Not much interest on my part in keeping them around longer than long yearlings, and weaned calves are for sale. Kinda thinking the long yearling thing s the best way to go, if I can make it go with my facilities.

Not too crazy about 93 lb BW myself, but it is what it is. There's a little birthweight in those hoodoos, mike, as I'm sure you've noticed. The biggest Charolais I've had in seven years was 118 lbs, straight hoodoo. Born fine, but heavy enough.

My inbreds are smaller at birth- 70s and 80s. They are mostly sire daughter and half sib matings, or something close to that. This guy is pretty much an outcross compared to them. For the whole group, knock on wood, no calving trouble except with a set of twins this year. In fact, only oth calving trouble in the last three years was a first calf heifer who just quit-- pulled the calf by hand, but it was big enough-- Jim would've probably weighed it. I just hauled it to the dump, finding his birthweight somewhat inconsequential.

Sadly he is probably a registered angus bull. I don't understand why people do this to themselves though. This is the very type that made producers use angus to begin with. The hereford cattle bred this very same animal and it cost them their usefulness and popularity as did the Simmental and the Gelbviehs too. They all bred this same type of animal and people quit using them. Now angus breeders can't go down the same road fast enough. The Simmentals and Gelbviehs are trying to make their cattle into what the angus used to be. I just don't get it. I read some where that great societies don't die, they commit suicide. That must go for breeds of cattle as well.

I like that. only weigh the dead ones since you have to pick them up anway. second or third day you dont have to worry about the cow hooking ya.

Mean Spirit, I think you misunderstood me, 92 lbs. is not too much for my cows. I don't want you to think my cows are pelvic wimps!

Jack McNamee wrote:

EddieM wrote:

Is this the type we are discussing?

There are so many things wrong with this bull. He exemplifies all the wrong turns the mainstream angus breeder has made in the last 20 years. He is everything we did wrong in the 70's and 80's and for the life of me I can't understand why we would take the most popular breed, maybe ever and turn it into this type of animal that no one has ever wanted for long. He would make a fine draft animal and that is the only redeeming quaility I can see in this bull and there is such high demand for draft cattle these days but maybe that will be the next fad. I hope this isn't someones favorite bull here but he is awful.

I almost forgot to add my "IMHO" to this post or I guess I should say "IMO" becaues I'm not all that humble. I caught wind that this bull might belong to someone over at the 4.9barY and just on the off chance he belongs to that feller Sue u tu ( little Asian feller I think) I'd better make sure I state, this is just my opinion. Wouldn't want to get cross ways with him.

Jack McNamee wrote:

Jack McNamee wrote:

EddieM wrote:

Is this the type we are discussing?

There are so many things wrong with this bull. He exemplifies all the wrong turns the mainstream angus breeder has made in the last 20 years. He is everything we did wrong in the 70's and 80's and for the life of me I can't understand why we would take the most popular breed, maybe ever and turn it into this type of animal that no one has ever wanted for long. He would make a fine draft animal and that is the only redeeming quaility I can see in this bull and there is such high demand for draft cattle these days but maybe that will be the next fad. I hope this isn't someones favorite bull here but he is awful.

I almost forgot to add my "IMHO" to this post or I guess I should say "IMO" becaues I'm not all that humble. I caught wind that this bull might belong to someone over at the 4.9barY and just on the off chance he belongs to that feller Sue u tu ( little Asian feller I think) I'd better make sure I state, this is just my opinion. Wouldn't want to get cross ways with him.

The H can't possibly stand for Humble can it?

If you had a bull like this you might be humbled more than you think! IMHO would stand for In My Humbled Opinion. But I just can't figure out this "keeper". Must have been the super high IMF creature he kept mentioned. Ratioed something like 130%, if I remember right, IMHO!