Another new guy

Will wrote:

Jack, do not have a lot of time but first my Purebred Gelbvieh made me about puke not all purebred cattle. I was use to crossbred cows and I could clearly see purebred Gelbvieh would not fit my enviroment or my customers. Needed to much great feed even though my Gelbvieh were more moderate than most Gelbvieh. I'll finish later. Been there and done that with the house cleaning. Hope you got her done.

I understand and I'm not a Gelbvieh fan but the pure part was the intent of my post. I also understand the marketing issue. It can be a tough sell even if you believe it's the best way. Thanks for the wishes on my house cleaning. Jean has been gone for 12 days and I find I can revert back to my bachelor days pretty fast. I hope you are getting this rain where your at. It's been raining here on and off lightly for about 36 hours. What a life saver. A million dollar rain would be an understatement. Thanks for your good posts here too Will. They damn sure make me think alot about my direction.

Jack

Kent, nothing. Modern Gelbvieh are more moderate than modern Angus. Purebred Gelbvieh still do not marble good enough for my program. My program has settled in at a quarter Gelbvieh and it still amazes me what that quarter does to a purebred Angus.

DF, I do not register anything. I do use the API and TI index when I buy herd bulls. It's a good system. Not the total answer though. To me bloodlines are the most important. Indeses got rid of single trait selection. EPD's in our catolog are from our own data base. Customers no longer even pay attention to EPD's. Could figure API and TI indexes fairly easy but customers do not need or want that either. We are way different than mainstream.

Jack, thanks. We had over an inch of rain. Needed it too. If I had to be a purebred breeder the only purebred breed I could use would be Black Angus. I would not join the AAA, and I would not AI. At one time there was at least 450 purebred Gelbvieh bulls sold at my local sales barn. Now there is not a single one. Once the commerical rancher got more than half Gelbvieh in their cowherd they no longer liked Gelbvieh. My program kept them at that half or below level and I have several customers that thank me for keeping them at that level. Have you noticed that Leo McDonald is selling 10 Sim-Angus bulls in his Angus sale in Bowman North Dakota? Now that is Angus country. Hope he knows what he is doing and did not fire and ice them!

Will wrote:

Grassfarmer, my son wrote the opening comments and I wrote the footnotes. I asked my son the same question. "He said just go look at the daughters they are moderate, thick, easy fleshing, good mothers, are once again raising top calves and I think at their age they are the best most complete cows we have ever raised. Plus we sell the heck out of the bull mates." Customers love them. How did you like the pictures? Son likes then from the side I prefer from the back while they walk away from me. Video will show all angles. Tea cups. hardly we run our cows as hard or harder than any of our customers! Footnotes, I just explained how I see it. Short and sweet!

Will, I'd be more interested in seeing pictures of your bull customer's cowherds - to see what groups of 10 year old+ F2 cows off your bulls look like. I didn't get much out of looking at your bull pictures, they are all the wrong colour for a start Compared to my little bulls at a similar age I didn't think yours showed a lot of masculinity but that's maybe down to the clipping and lesser hair coats.

Will wrote:

DF, I do not register anything. I do use the API and TI index when I buy herd bulls. It's a good system. Not the total answer though. To me bloodlines are the most important. Indeses got rid of single trait selection. EPD's in our catolog are from our own data base. Customers no longer even pay attention to EPD's. Could figure API and TI indexes fairly easy but customers do not need or want that either. We are way different than mainstream.

Do you calculate your own EPDs or do you have someone else do it?

DF, myself. Never been a believer in EPD's. I know my cows better than any Association's EPD's. Through the years I have known several breeders that sat at the kitchen table and used EPD's to decide what bull to mate each cow too. I always got a good laugh out of that. Most no longer raise bulls. Amazes me how people can believe in EPD's. I always thought and still do think it was a way to force bulls raiser to register their cattle.

Will wrote:

DF, myself. Never been a believer in EPD's. I know my cows better than any Association's EPD's. Through the years I have known several breeders that sat at the kitchen table and used EPD's to decide what bull to mate each cow too. I always got a good laugh out of that. Most no longer raise bulls. Amazes me how people can believe in EPD's. I always thought and still do think it was a way to force bulls raiser to register their cattle.

You certainly picked a nice tight range of 1.0-2.5 for BW, 41-50 for WW, 91-102 for YW and 22-25 for Milk. Very uniform.

df wrote:

Will wrote:

DF, myself. Never been a believer in EPD's. I know my cows better than any Association's EPD's. Through the years I have known several breeders that sat at the kitchen table and used EPD's to decide what bull to mate each cow too. I always got a good laugh out of that. Most no longer raise bulls. Amazes me how people can believe in EPD's. I always thought and still do think it was a way to force bulls raiser to register their cattle.

You certainly picked a nice tight range of 1.0-2.5 for BW, 41-50 for WW, 91-102 for YW and 22-25 for Milk. Very uniform.

if the difference is no greater than that; then you are just filling up space to imitate the mainstream...why not go ahead and be meaningfully different?

Cows are uniform, so are the bulls, as are the herd bulls. Have never sold a bull because of his EPD's and have never not sold a bull because of his EPD's so MK you make a good point. Habitor ratio's maybe. Heck I guess I could of started at a higher base and make those yearling EPD's 150 or milk EPD 50 if I wanted to. Doubt if anyone would even notice. Birth EPD is hiefer bull 1, cow bull 2, disaster 3! I'll take inherd EPD's or ratio's any day over Association EPD's. Really I'm am suppose to trust everyone that sends in data. What do you think I'm Sugarsprings...Dumber than a mud fence!

Another way to make EPD's higher would be to have a hundred trash cows around that raise poor calves to make my good cows look even better. Only problem with that is most years I do not even have enough feed to feed my good cows the way most people do.

Will wrote:

DF, myself. Never been a believer in EPD's. I know my cows better than any Association's EPD's. Through the years I have known several breeders that sat at the kitchen table and used EPD's to decide what bull to mate each cow too. I always got a good laugh out of that. Most no longer raise bulls. Amazes me how people can believe in EPD's. I always thought and still do think it was a way to force bulls raiser to register their cattle.

So you don't believe in EPDs and neither do your customers, yet you print them? Mark this day; I agree with MK!!

I'll mark it down!

Will , I don't care if you verbally erupt without thinking, just do it on the proper post. Reflections is a location that stimulates thought, makes your head hurt, and just just flat spills AFFECTION. Thankfully Bob H. addressed your concerns. Sounds like he is above AVERAGE. (Hang in there Bob H, I'm pulling for you ). Go ahead Will and hang your banners. Self gratification is not lacking in this day and age . As for muddy water, I was referring to you degrading of another person inappropriately placed under the "Reflections" thread.



Jon, a below average COMMERCIAL cattle, and hog producer who really enjoys Hank Kimble but can't stand Mr. Haney.

Jonken, I would just as soon have every thing on this page. I might as well get credit for stirring the pot. MK said he was going to move it and LL said do not. I also think Bob H. is a big boy and does not need your help. He seems sharp enough to take care of himself. Sorry to hear you are a below average commerical breeder. Could get you above average with just about any bull in my pen.

Will,

We are predominantly a grain farm, if I worked up the land you seem to think I should we would spend all our time pulling equipment out of the mud.

Started seeding yesterday, two weeks late starting and the first day there is always a few problems but managed to seed almost 400 acres before the rain started again last night.



You mention making serious money, which sounds excessive... How much money do you need to be successful?

Are your customers calves better than yours?

Why the need for so many different pieces of equipment, Hilly? Surely one tool can do every the job the best. I wouldn't have a tractor or a cow that wasn't the ''best'' at every job.

Heck, if I'd known you were sitting twiddling your thumbs Hilly you could have come and seeded for me. Been trying to coax my custom operator since 20th April but he doesn't believe the land is dry enough and doesn't want to get rain on his new drill Hopefully tomorrow we'll get it done. My neighbours have been rolling for 3 days now with 3 drills and 10,000 acres to seed - an early start in this valley.
Do you think if we crossed the biggest corn seeds with the biggest corn seeds like Will suggests we could grow the best corn crop in Leedale County? Maybe we could grow a crop worthy of the Jimmer's Iowa standards...... or maybe there is a reason our grass is so nice and green in September

Will wrote:

Jonken, I would just as soon have every thing on this page. I might as well get credit for stirring the pot. MK said he was going to move it and LL said do not. I also think Bob H. is a big boy and does not need your help. He seems sharp enough to take care of himself. Sorry to hear you are a below average commerical breeder. Could get you above average with just about any bull in my pen.

for a season; and then it would all average out...

Grassfarmer wrote:

Heck, if I'd known you were sitting twiddling your thumbs Hilly you could have come and seeded for me. Been trying to coax my custom operator since 20th April but he doesn't believe the land is dry enough and doesn't want to get rain on his new drill Hopefully tomorrow we'll get it done. My neighbours have been rolling for 3 days now with 3 drills and 10,000 acres to seed - an early start in this valley.
Do you think if we crossed the biggest corn seeds with the biggest corn seeds like Will suggests we could grow the best corn crop in Leedale County? Maybe we could grow a crop worthy of the Jimmer's Iowa standards...... or maybe there is a reason our grass is so nice and green in September

I couldn’t resist taking this picture of the seed I picked up for Grassy today... we should be over at your place tomorrow





That should get him and a maybe a few others fired up and listing to Corb Lund.




You know you’re making progress when the price of your cargo is more than double what your truck is worth

.

that band seems in touch with the soil

Thanks, but too late Hilly we got it seeded to oats already. Is it true that the canola seed is @$500 a bag? I was talking to some neighbours and could hardly believe that. Good job that most farmers are honest and meth heads don't know anything about agriculture as that stuff would be the #1 item to steal.
I love that Corb Lund song, such a stereotype Alberta anthem. I know where the true story behind that song happened - and although it was uncharacteristic for the Hutterites to not stop and help out there was a reason - the truck got stuck delivering a few bags of canola to the colony and when they arrived on the scene some of their precious canola seed had already been applied to the prairie soil as a traction aid hence their reluctance to pull the trucks out. They picked up their seed and left.

Corb Lund is good stuff just traveled 2400miles with two CD'S both Corb Lund. Son roomed with two Albertan's in school.

give us a glowing sale report Will; even if you have to do the standard registered practice of making it up

Went well. Caught a break with the weather. No rain and just a little wind. Customers are like me. They know how to balance their checkbook and I really like that. I make my money by having very few throwaways. My customers make their money the same way. Sold the two potential bulls we cut the week before the sale. Had them with the replacement hiefers all winter so they gained maybe a pound a day. They brought $1193 as steers. Market is really good. Time to tuck a little money away for a rainy day. Sara took quite a few pictures. Wish she would of been around when a little 4 year old boy was petting a bull while he was laying down and stayed laying down. People were very impressed with that. Every bull had a really good disposition. Learned a lot about a video sale. Lot of work setting up and tearing down again. Glad its over. Not much of a salesman or people person. I do it because I like genetics and the outcrossing of those genetics. Son is the people person. Does a really good job. Lost a couple really good customers again this year, to dispersing their cows. Really good money in farming with less work. Can't blame them. We are going that route also. It was our last sale. We will have a few bulls for a hobby and sell them private treaty. I want most of my winter off. Enjoy other things.