Male Lines or Female Lines

It seems that many base animal population improvements and goals on males in the background or place more emphasis on males. Some seem to build on a female base. I know that it takes two to tango, but are there reasons to choose either route?

EddieM wrote:

It seems that many base animal population improvements and goals on males in the background or place more emphasis on males. Some seem to build on a female base. I know that it takes two to tango, but are there reasons to choose either route?

males fight for the right to breed, females have maternal instinct.

would rather have a loving mother then a asshole father, in my herd.

Physiological reasons exist for concurrent selection for feminity and mascullinity. Truly masculine bulls (high testosterone) tend to produce very feminine daughters (high estrogen). Bonsma base one applies and is favorable to reproductive efficiency in the herd. Terminal matings may be favored if a shift emphasis to growth and carcass on the bull side occurs. The cow herd is best suited to a regular live calf interval philosophy first.

So, the gender of the animal that the line is based on does not matter? Just keep inbreeding and looking for masculine males and fertile females? Is there a difference in the outcome based on the speed that the inbreeding occurs? Is there more stability from, say, breeding cousin to cousin repeatly for several generations of just jump in full speed ahead with sib/sib, sire/daughter, son/mother?

EddieM, I consider the cow line to be very important. I had the good luck to purchase several pathfinders from a small number of herds to start my own. These cow families generally started with one outstanding dam. When identified, these proven cows, generally 7 or 8 years old in dispersals, can be bought with less money. I appreciated the proof that the pathfinder status allowed and considered I was given a discount to acquire it. One cow family was made up of three daughters, each by a different sire, and a grandaughter from one of the daughters from a fourth sire. This family of 4 pathfinders had produced 3 herd bulls at the home ranch. Another family, identified by the dam of a purchased herd bull from a third herd, and fulfilled with a 5th generation pathfinder with heifer calf at side when traced down in a dispersal of cows over four years old for estate purposes. I liked the Bonsmara breed because the extra-nuclear inheritance from the cow only, and that was from the heat tolerant Non-Brahman Africaner. Cows carry two X chromosomes while bulls only have one that is a combination ot the two found in his dam and passes this exact same X to every daughter. So, I generally like to build the cow herd on great dams but use bulls from great dams as well by design.

One observation I had when first starting with beef cattle coming from the dairy was the amount of time spent looking and talking about bulls, didn’t matter if it was sale day or just a herd visit the bulls were always the focal point, it really took me by surprise... I would go to a bull sale and everyone was in the pens studying bulls and I guess from habit I would be out back walking through the cows, I eventually learned to study bulls with everyone else as it was explained to me that in the beef industry you sell pounds unlike the dairy.

In the dairy I was use to the sorriest looking bulls from a fat or well muscled perspective, but I paid no serious attention to their looks it was all about the cows.

I chose to build on a female base on my maternal side because my cows actually have a legitimate job year round and any faults are magnified, my bulls on the other hand only have 2 months of work and I really question our ability to interpret what a masculine bull looks like if masculine bulls make feminine cows, simply due to the fact that my dairy cows were very feminine in appearance to me and the dairy bulls would be sub masculine for their lack of muscle and fat by the more prevalent and accepted industry standard.

I realize its apples and oranges to some degree but I do have to question what “high testosterone” looks like as this guy didn’t get to two million units of high quality semen on his good looks

I as well grew up on a dairy farm. And i as well look at the cows, and think it is all about the cow. Rag apple round oak elevation was the dairy bull of my era. And he still has a profound effect on the industry because of his daughters. I keep getting hung up on the daughter deal, am i wrong?

I didn't ever grow up, on a dairy farm, or otherwise, so I probably have no basis for an opinion. I have spent my entire childhood on a cow farm though. I don't know if Toy Story is the best movie or bull, ever. Both sold alot of tickets, and made someone alot of money. We have sold some pretty sorry cattle for alot of money, over the years. Obviously someone thought they were good at the time. I've done alot of things that seemed good at the time, like investing in an ethanol plant three months before corn went from 2 bucks to 5. Or opening a meat retail store about the time fats went from 70 cents to a buck twenty. Or buying 30 cows only to see a 30 inch rain deficeit in a 3 month period from the prior year. Or.......just do whatever I'm doing the exact opposite, and your sure to be rich beyond your wildest dreams.

All of this to say, Hilly, I agree completely, and if that don't give you pause, It Should.


Bootheel, giving up on normal sleep and sleepy rainy days

I also agree, I think, since I think you guys might be saying the mama is more important than the daddy.

But why, eg, why?

I’m not sure one is more important than the other, if we could breed by numbers in controlled environments I’m not sure it would matter.

As long as visual interpretation of functionality in unique environments is used in the selection process, I see selection based on paternal more as broad strokes with relatively simple function, where as I see maternal base selection getting into the fine strokes of the more detailed function within a given environment, subject to interpretation.