Reflections from LL ©

df wrote:

http://www.pic.com/Images/Users/1/SalesPortal/Literature/GL1710_PIC_CBV_r6.pdf

http://www.pic.com/cms/USA/763.html

http://www.pic.com/Images/Users/1/SalesPortal/Products/PIC337rg/337rgmanagement1-4.pdf

So are you saying if the ADFI to ADG ratio favours the wet feed over dry in efficiency with a .15 probability but increases the backfat .04” and decrease yield and percentage lean, if all the while maintaining the ideal head space of 13”, that the resulting feed to gain ratio will help us understand why THE DIFFICULTY IS IN THE APPLICATION....not by genetic principles, but by the short sighted, self-greed/preservation of human nature

DF , Thanks for posting links regarding modern swine production .I have failed in following their guidelines .Joe please warn Riche .Mike , may I be so bold to ask that DF'S links be moved to another heading besides reflections from LL . Thanks in advance , Jon

Dennis Voss wrote:

"The disputants rail on 'n on in utter ignorance of what each other mean
Each in his own opinion disputed loud and long
Bout what the cross-eyed Data Fiend has not yet seen
The Ravens view from high above nor hears the caws of his song"
-Anonymous

Revised edition. Newer, better, bigger, deeper, etc.

DV in the vicinity

I like the telephoto glasses and the ears plugged trying to contain the smoke.

DF, forgot to tell you, take ear plugs out if you get upset because the smoke will build up, causing the head to explode, DV, just thinking, maybe you could write up a grant to warn "your kind" of this flaw in "your system"

DF, why did you ditch the ear muffs for the ear plugs? DV

I study nuclear science
I love my classes
I got a crazy teacher, he wears dark glasses
Things are going great, and they're only getting better
I'm doing all right, getting good grades
The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades,
I gotta wear shades

I've got a job waiting for my graduation
Fifty thou a year -- buys a lot of beer
Things are going great, and they're only getting better
I'm doing all right, getting good grades
The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades
I gotta wear shades

Well I'm heavenly blessed and worldly wise
I'm a peeping-tom techie with x-ray eyes
Things are going great, and they're only getting better
I'm doing all right, getting good grades
The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades
I gotta wear shades

“Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world's great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of the rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs."

― Norman Maclean, A River Runs Through It

Larry Leonhardt wrote:

I want to thank you for your special Christmas gift Dylan, there's alot of truth in your post of Dec 22 "Telling the Hard Truth". Betty will be glad you edited it, being married 53 years and having a 54 yr old daughter wouldn't sit very well with her .....she doesn't think it's very funny at all when I tell my grandkids we were married in December and had our first born in March,.............not mentioning the year in between '55 and '57.

I was particularly awestruck by the ending of your post ......

".....With explanation kind
The Truth must dazzle gradually
Or every man be blind—
Lest we blind those whose vision we wish to correct, we must be careful with the truth, for it is, indeed, both bright and dangerous...... "

I laughed thinking that DV's latest revised version should've shown the smokin' raven handin' Mr. Data Fiend a welding helmet. If we use humor carefully in telling the hard truth, I'm also remindful that when we're sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the whole unrelenting truth, I suspect DV symbolized the raven wearin' a DeKalb cap (rather than a Betaseed one) was in reference to DF's comment that

"Even the swine industry and corn companies share data with their customers so the customers can make the best decision"
Being a professional private company, the DeKalb corn, pig and chicken breeders have always shared data when marketing their products......yet DF conveniently omits telling the whole hard truth...... which is, that these private companies do NOT share any data publicly with their customers or competition about the parent's proprietary pedigree/geneology that create these renewable, definitive, predictable results.....they in fact only publicly reveal whether a specific variety is an open pollinated, a 2-way single, a 3-way or a 4-way cross.....and then they compare the renewable GENETIC differences of their FIXED genetic result under side by side identical environmental conditions.

So, this is a far, far cry from an industry filled with wide spread half-truths based on data from incomplete measures, compiled and compared with some psuedo-average among "unfixed" individual's, who are scattered everywhere from many different environmental/management schemes. The existing traditional systems readily accept this mayhem and that is the primary reason I left it. The silence from the thousands who want to follow my path is deafening, there aren't many Bob Howard's in this world, but they are increasing in number

There is lots of space left in this barren frontier land outside the registered mainstream. However, when the blind in one eye and cannot see much out of the other in a helter skelter business invade my territory, I can become defensive and a little more than offended like when DF says...

".....This is really the same as MK and LL wondering where we would be today if the industry had adapted Tru-line in the early 1980s when LL wrote about it. If the data had been collected, when AAA releases their Heifer Preg and STAY EPDs, LL and MK might be in the drivers seat. Instead there is the complaint about time. It seems LL and MK aren't getting out of the business, so really the time issue is a non-issue. It is not like they are getting out before the data might be useful to selection of animals that excel in maternal traits and have the data to back it up.... but I wonder what useful data will be collected and shared with customers to prove the animals are "good"

I suppose I could respond by saying I wonder what is the genuine usefulness of the revered temporary data being collected today? But then I would become just another one of those shallow disputants who rail on and on in utter ignorance of what each other mean. While I may be one of the first to apply a TruLine cattle breeding cconcept, I was far from the first to write about it. Systems concepts have been cussed and discussed for decades both inside and outside the scientific world. In 1986 Rick Bourdon wrote several papers demonstrating how increases in profitability have not paralleled increases in production. From my library sized piles of papers and domestic and foreign research data, they can all be summarized into a few short words......THE DIFFICULTY IS IN THE APPLICATION....not by genetic principles, but by the short sighted, self-greed/preservation of human nature. So the only question is how do we improve the system to simplify the application?

I certainly have no ambitions to be in any drivers seat, my AAA driver's license expired in 2003 which was only needed to drive on public thoroughfares. I did forego my job as a garbage collector ...of collecting the litter from traditional academia sponsored public data systems which only prolong the agony. I'm not on any ego trip here, the sum of the whole truth is I just didn't want to be held back, bound and chained to the traditional mainstream. And just in case anyone might be wondering, I am continuing to collect and apply USEFUL data from my summary of 48 years of accumulated data ..... from which it is my sole responsibility to tell any customers nothing but the whole truth as I know it, so help me God .... that is the only proof I can offer from which they can make their best decision to buy or not to buy.... that is the only question.

Now I don't want to blind those whose vision I wish to correct, so following the axiom "the truth must dazzle gradually", I'm telling the hard truth of my early history in the mid 60's as real as I can ......

My collection of data began way back when I met ole Karney Redman
Carryin his measuring tapes to balance every trait
With bell curves 'n numbers 'n charts he could correlate
And substantiate from a median of four and to a top of eight

How gains in one trait would increase the overall size
Twas all clearly explained 'n proven before me very eyes
Why genetic balance must be kept which was to my ignorant surprise
So with the numbers from the wise I set off 'ta gain that bigger prize

There wasn't yet a ten way back then
I chose an eight to gain more weight
An eight cow needed to be twelve inches longer than a four
Three inches wider and six inches taller from the floor

This would give 'em 1.75 more pounds of average daily gain
Increase YW by 630# 'n a mature weight of 1700 pounds to maintain
But feed conversion would more than double
Promising more beef under the hide without any trouble

Birth weight 'n milk were left blank and oh so many more
Ole Karney died afore he could finish up all his measurin's score
Now with ratios to EPD 'n mixed up pedigree from ice to treetops afire
We can choose from everything 'n anything whatever our hearts desire

Now isn't that a variety pak to set before a king
A porridge that includes near every single measured thing
With purple bells and cockle shells no ducks in a row
A cow's the only one ta listen to now says the ole wise crow

The crow has heard the lament of the artificially-inseminated cow
Never been loved but ruthlessly shoved with frozen straws ta' be better by now
There are some things a cow just should not properly say
But the crow says she'd much prefer the old-fashioned way

Twas only one progeny ever since creation
Decreed pure by an immaculate conception
There'll be no expectin' rare miracles from TruLine
It's all just set forth in the known laws of the Divine

LL in the vicinity of moving my camp forward from days long gone by .....attributing the inspiration for this poetic version of the past to Karney Redman who drove around the countryside in his ole beat up VW Beatle peddlin' semen derived from his song....when all were partly in the right, now just resolved to enlighten one or all what's dangerously in the wrong....what's your New Year's Resolution???

Larry, gald to be able to share it, and happy it had meaning for you. Aritha van Hirk and especially Emily Dickinson seems to grasp completely the challenge of sincere communication.

A few of your comments that struck me,

"this is a far, far cry from an industry filled with wide spread half-truths based on data from incomplete measures, compiled and compared with some psuedo-average among "unfixed" individual's, who are scattered everywhere from many different environmental/management schemes. "

"THE DIFFICULTY IS IN THE APPLICATION....not by genetic principles, but by the short sighted, self-greed/preservation of human nature. So the only question is how do we improve the system to simplify the application?"



The hard truth of your early history was great, especially the nugget below.

"Now isn't that a variety pak to set before a king
A porridge that includes near every single measured thing"

DB, thinking about resolutions of all sorts.

Larry Leonhardt wrote:

DF quote
I am all for having maternal lines to make the females and terminal lines to make terminal calves. Tell me about your maternal line.

Are you a customer, spy or a rustler.... private company's only pass out free caps with their logo to customers

In any event, if you're really actually interested in broadening the views of what you teach, by reading pages one through seventy of "Reflections by LL" you will find the base of my maternal line. [/b][/i]

After 70 pages, Larry, you're way more patient than I. After 70 pages, I'm not sure DF is "really actually interested in broadening the views" of what he teaches. IMHsimplisticO!

MKeeney wrote:

I am always amused at the chilling effect Larry writings have on a thread or a subject; the ultimate respect I think...whereas when I post ...some feel intimidated with Larry; you shouldn`t. Sometimes, I argue with him, just to be arguing...surprise; surprise

Do you have any information on how much your genetics have improved calving distribution or replacement rate, ie., do they calve early and often?

df wrote:

Do you have any information on how much your genetics have improved calving distribution or replacement rate, ie., do they calve early and often?

I sure don`t; and won`t...and will largely ignore those who might make such claims attributing the difference to genetics...I have mentioned, however, to the likes of Kit Pharo, or even with your Show-me-select heifers, that if you want to guarantee backed by cash{in escrow; this would be registerede breeders; here today; gone tomorrow} a significantly higher % of females bred or re-bred by certain sires, I might consider one of their bulls...

MKeeney wrote:

df wrote:

Do you have any information on how much your genetics have improved calving distribution or replacement rate, ie., do they calve early and often?

I sure don`t; and won`t...and will largely ignore those who might make such claims attributing the difference to genetics...I have mentioned, however, to the likes of Kit Pharo, or even with your Show-me-select heifers, that if you want to guarantee backed by cash{in escrow; this would be registerede breeders; here today; gone tomorrow} a significantly higher % of females bred or re-bred by certain sires, I might consider one of their bulls...

Mike I am tiring to remember how those guarantee's work. Is it like this

W.T wrote:

MKeeney wrote:

df wrote:

Do you have any information on how much your genetics have improved calving distribution or replacement rate, ie., do they calve early and often?

I sure don`t; and won`t...and will largely ignore those who might make such claims attributing the difference to genetics...I have mentioned, however, to the likes of Kit Pharo, or even with your Show-me-select heifers, that if you want to guarantee backed by cash{in escrow; this would be registerede breeders; here today; gone tomorrow} a significantly higher % of females bred or re-bred by certain sires, I might consider one of their bulls...

Mike I am tiring to remember how those guarantee's work. Is it like this

I believe you have those guarantees pretty well nailed WT...The cattle are unconditionally guaranteed until after the sale...which means the best guarantee you can buy is not to pay too damn much in the first place...then you can take care of problems without too much remorse...

There is one more quarantee that my father taught me is that if you own cattle there will be problems. It is real simple if you do not want problems sell the livestock.

My neighbor says that all educations cost and the key to a getting a good education is keeping the cost to a minimum. ( or at least getting all of your expense back)

With that said we have found Shoshone maternal line to keep the cost lower than any thing we have found on our ranch or see as I go around buying cattle.

HAPPY NEW YEAR

Bob H from the land of many peridigm shifts.

Bob H wrote:

There is one more quarantee that my father taught me is that if you own cattle there will be problems. It is real simple if you do not want problems sell the livestock.

My neighbor says that all educations cost and the key to a getting a good education is keeping the cost to a minimum. ( or at least getting all of your expense back)

With that said we have found Shoshone maternal line to keep the cost lower than any thing we have found on our ranch or see as I go around buying cattle.

HAPPY NEW YEAR

Bob H from the land of many peridigm shifts.

For some reason Bob, your posts about keeping costs low carry more weight with me than some other posters. Wonder why?

Happy New Year!

Dylan, for years I failed in my efforts to effectively communicate the cold hard truth the proper Aritha van Hirk/Emily Dickinson way, but then I discovered the DV/MK way. The reason I like the straightforward DV/MK way so damn much better is that we have that inborn quality to laugh at our own ignorance.....that big devilish grin on their face always does wonders for me. So if it works for me, I am accumulating data for DF measuring the grins of DV, MK, Tom D, Jack, Bootheel and others as they tell the cold, no holes barred hard truth......so far DV's artistry gives him a slight edge as the winner, of course, he couldn't be the cream of the crop without the milk provided by the others

In one of his more serious moods, I've moved DV's "PIC ..." response to Ben over here to reflections because it involves a philosphy highly related to time and unmeasured public data that is left unseen in the numbers, not talked about much, but seen and too often neglected by all of us who have been in the real cattle business for awhile......it is an unmeasured category I've entitled "The Economic Impact of Inconvenient Traits"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ben Loyning wrote:
Dennis, Just out of curiosity I was wondering how much you attribute your herd health to genetics, and how much to management/environment? I know I've read that you have kept extensive health records on your cattle and was curious on how they trend in different genetic lines? I know you run an "outdoor" outfit, what effect does that have on health? Here I think being an "outdoor" outfit is key. I also attribute alot of health sorting to our altitude. I think it pretty well cleans up any animals with respritory or PAP issues. I think we lost 3 calves to "altitude sickness", and doctored maybe 5 or 6 for other things this year. It comes up to a hair more than a percent for health problems. If the calves we've shipped are as healthy as the ones here at home then I would think that would mean a bunch to the buyer. They will perform enough and they shouldn't have to mess with them. Sorry to get off topic fellas.

Ben Loyning, In the vicinity of Bovine health.

Quote :

Ben,
There's no way to put a percent figure to it at this point in time. But a substantial amount of my herd health must be attributed to genetics for the simple reason that I researched an extensive amount of cattle lines before arriving at the conclusion that Shoshone Angus cattle were superior on the issue of staying healthy. If you were to research the history of the Horse Butte cattle herd, you would see that it at one time or another in its early development, utilized every significant genetic line available in the Angus breed. Years & years ago Wayne Stevenson spent the day with me looking at cattle and pedigrees and commented at the end of the day that if you wanted to see an example of every registered Angus breeder in the state of Montana you only needed to go to Horse Butte Ranch because everyone was represented. The first wrenching crank in my neck occurred when I purchased a load of straight Shoshone bulls from Leonhardt to use on our commercial cattle program. The resulting offspring were tough, good doing cattle. In those days we kept track of calves that got sick and who their sires were because we did a lot of AI. The material we assembled was significant and revealing and we've kept it fairly private because it's our own personal data. Over time now the Shoshone cattle and Shoshone genetic influence has become a dominant factor in our genetic base and while the changes in herd health attributed to management changes are significant, they only dovetail with the genetic potency.

20 years ago a well known order buyer told me about 3 prominent commercial herds of cattle that he would not purchase yearling feeder cattle from. For the simple reason that the death loss was so big in the feedlot they couldn't afford to take a chance on the cattle any more. Over the years I have tried to keep my ears to the track on this issue. While there are many factors that have entered in like BVD, mycoplasma and God knows what else, the kind of stuff I'm talking about is mostly pneumonia, footrot, pinkeye, scours. You hear all the time about herds that must be doctored constantly. I know a feedlot guy who won't feed a certain ranches cattle because he's fed up with doctoring them. I notice the Lonhorn cross cattle are tougher than hell when it comes to these issues. Couple that with what I know about Shoshone cattle and I'd say my F1 cows could stand up to anyone's anywhere for toughness, disease resistence, rangeability. In the early days Longhorn cattle were bred for survivability. My question to Leonhardt is "How did you get these cattle to have this superior resistance?" Or I could ask the same of Gavin Falloon. How did you correct Angus feet so well? I don't want an answer to either one of these questions because I believe successful breeding of cattle is an art form and the mysteries need to remain mysteries. Not that these guys have a secret book or anything like that.

We don't have an altitude problem here Ben. I wish Dave Noble would share what he knows about Shoshone cattle and altitude. Hey Dave, get to typing. Quit petting wolves and get to typing.
The most profound thing I can share with anyone interested in breeding cattle is this, as it applies to the subject being disccussed. Please quote me on the following statement because this is my baby.
Registered breeders are failures because they will not let certain cattle lines with high expectations fail. It becomes registered breeder vs mother nature. A mating is conceived by the breeder in the privacy of his warm home complete with coffee and computer. Everything about it fits together like a fine glove. The mating is made. The calf is born. The calf is awesome. He exceeds all expectations. The calf gets sick. The calf gets doctored. The calf gets sick. The calf gets doctored. The calf gets weaned. The calf gets doctored. The calf goes to the feedlot/bull test. The calf gets doctored. The calf manages to win the feed test and goes to the bull stud. The bull gets doctored. The now famous bull gets collected and collected. His calves are everywhere in programs from Australia, New Zealand, Scotland, Canada & America. A great percentage of his calves get doctored. These calves are mated with simliar genetics achieved in a similar manner. Soon we no longer have cattle mated to cattle, but pickles mated to pickles.Dennis Voss in the vicinity ."

Of particular interest to me was when DV said ".....while there are many factors that have entered in like BVD, mycoplasma and God K N O W S W H A T E L S E, the kind of stuff I'm talking about is mostly pneumonia, footrot, pinkeye, scours. You hear all the time about herds that must be doctored constantly.....My question to Leonhardt is "How did you get these cattle to have this superior resistance?" Or I could ask the same of Gavin Falloon. How did you correct Angus feet so well? I don't want an answer to either one of these questions because I believe successful breeding of cattle is an art form and the mysteries need to remain mysteries. Not that these guys have a secret book or anything like that.....Soon we no longer have cattle mated to cattle, but pickles mated to pickles."
Then DV subsequently posted " I'll let Larry address the Shoshone cattle as it pertains to their correctly functioning endocrine system. I feel like I've gone out on a limb with some of the statements I've made. Who knows, maybe I'm setting myself up for a big wreck. I hope not. If I had a couple of lifetimes behind me I'd feel more confident."

Bakewell was thought to have some mysterious secrets to his breeding success, followed by Watson. The whole mysterious secretive truth of the matter is that any inferred successful breeding of my cattle has to be attributed to being extremely lucky, sloppy (piss poor) management and persistant determination. Improving the endocrine system is relatively easy compared to the rest of it. . I've often fretted over the economic loss of losing an animal that maybe I could have saved by better management when I should've enoyed the genetic gain at the non-perpetuation of whatever their weakness was. I think I'm beginning to be influenced by the PCC/LCC way, dependence on hybrid vigor......Now if I could only be influenced by their marketing of the survivors, just think how much better my cattle could be......

I nearly died laughing when Darrell implied I oughta have all my genetic problems solved and God knows what else after linebreeding cattle in a closed herd for 30 years; and when Gavin told me it has cost him alot to doing what he's doing in a closed herd, that after 40 years he has just begun; and when Ken Clark told me one man can't get much done in his lifetime; and when Lingle said the odds of producing an identical full brother are a paltry 205,891,132,694,649 trillion to one......yet, the common persistant determination of these men was/is to raise seedstock for the CHEAPER production of BETTER meat. I would have included the King Tutts of Coloredonuts in this group but it is "EASY TO FIND THIS OBJECTIVE LEFT BEHIND WHEN AN AUCTION SALE BECOMES A ONE-RING CIRCUS---A PARADE OF INFLATED VALUES AND INFLATED EGOS". So I laugh thinking of my economic stupidity when I left behind the registered parade of "first editions" with their over inflated values but how I'm compensated much more in enjoyment value by MK's participation in his THREE-RING CIRCUS with its deflated values, hoping when we laugh the world laughs with us and not at us

So DV, if you're setting yourself up for a big wreck, at least it won't be fatal. Just FYI, our vet has finished preg checking our 693 females from five different environmental units. As usual, there was no significant difference in the percent of opens in any unit between the 50 yearlings, the 140 first calf coming three year olds and the more mature cows ranging in age from 3's to 18. The 5 to 6% opens have no significant difference in the commonality of their ancestry to those of their pregnant herd mates. Under my questionable management, I seriously doubt that I could significantly improve that percentage by selection until dooms day whether my cattle were close bred, outcrossed or crossbred, however, as I learned over time, contrary selection priorities could seriously reduce the percentage of pregnant cows in a heartbeat.....dangerously jeopardizing my reputation as well as my economic livelihood

Hope you're copyrighting your artistry for our retirement benefits DV, its deflated value today will surely be greatly inflated in years to come. On a sad note, great creative artist's aren't normally widely acclaimed in their own lifetime, just wanted you to know a few of us recognize it today.

LL enjoyin' life in the vicinity of circus tents and clowns

Pearls before Swine by Stephan Pastis

Elly Elephant was sick of Henry Hippo
So she sat in her kitchen and tried to envision her dream man
I will take this empty basket and put in one avocado for each trait I want in a man
So she put in one avocado for sensitivity, and one for handsome, and one for adventurous
And I want him to be dependable, putting in another avocado. but when she did out fell adventurous
Well, he at least needs to be non-superficial, adding another avocado, but out dropped handsome
Okay, he can't be needy squeezing in another avocado, but out fell sensitive
The basket can't hold all the avocados Elly cried in despair
I'll simply have to be happy with the few avocados I have
Which was none because Henry Hippo turned them all into guacamole

Larry Leonhardt wrote:

Pearls before Swine by Stephan Pastis

Elly Elephant was sick of Henry Hippo
So she sat in her kitchen and tried to envision her dream man
I will take this empty basket and put in one avocado for each trait I want in a man
So she put in one avocado for sensitivity, and one for handsome, and one for adventurous
And I want him to be dependable, putting in another avocado. but when she did out fell adventurous
Well, he at least needs to be non-superficial, adding another avocado, but out dropped handsome
Okay, he can't be needy squeezing in another avocado, but out fell sensitive
The basket can't hold all the avocados Elly cried in despair
I'll simply have to be happy with the few avocados I have
Which was none because Henry Hippo turned them all into guacamole

Ahhhh, when to know when enough, is indeed enough. Classic rendering of Leonhardtisms, into real world application.


Bootheel

Larry,

Do you hold your heifers until 2, then breed them. Calving the first time as 3 year olds? Or do you breed them as 2 year olds and this group are the coming 3 years olds which have calved once and bred back.

"the 140 first calf coming three year olds and the more mature cows ranging in age from 3's to 18."

Re-reading it, I take it to mean they've calved once.

chocolate cow wrote:

Larry,

Do you hold your heifers until 2, then breed them. Calving the first time as 3 year olds? Or do you breed them as 2 year olds and this group are the coming 3 years olds which have calved once and bred back.

"the 140 first calf coming three year olds and the more mature cows ranging in age from 3's to 18."

Re-reading it, I take it to mean they've calved once.

CC,
It`s been warmer in WY than KY the last few days...I`m guess LL is kinda busy; and then again, he might just be spending all his time with his new electronic cigarette but most, if not all, heifers calve at two...

I guess this is what describes the main stream registered breeders to me. Most will think iam Nuts but what the Hell.
There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.
I dunno why she swallowed that fly,
Perhaps she'll die.
There was an old lady who swallowed a spider,
That wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
But I dunno why she swallowed that fly -
Perhaps she'll die.
There was an old lady who swallowed a bird;
How absurd, to swallow a bird!
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider
That wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
But I dunno why she swallowed that fly -
Perhaps she'll die
There was an old lady who swallowed a cat.
Imagine that, she swallowed a cat.
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird ...
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider
That wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
But I dunno why she swallowed that fly
Perhaps she'll die
There was an old lady who swallowed a dog.
What a hog! To swallow a dog!
She swallowed the dog to catch the cat...
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird ...
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider
That wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
But I dunno why she swallowed that fly
Perhaps she'll die.
There was an old lady who swallowed a goat.
Just opened her throat and swallowed a goat!
She swallowed the goat to catch the dog ...
She swallowed the dog to catch the cat.
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird ...
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider
That wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
But I dunno why she swallowed that fly
Perhaps she'll die.
There was an old lady who swallowed a cow.
I don't know how she swallowed a cow!
She swallowed the cow to catch the goat...
She swallowed the goat to catch the dog...
She swallowed the dog to catch the cat...
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird ...
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider
That wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
But I dunno why she swallowed that fly
Perhaps she'll die.
There was an old lady who swallowed a horse -
She's dead, of course.
In the end is this the fate of the registered cow. I Think she'll Die

MKeeney wrote:

chocolate cow wrote:

Larry,

Do you hold your heifers until 2, then breed them. Calving the first time as 3 year olds? Or do you breed them as 2 year olds and this group are the coming 3 years olds which have calved once and bred back.

"the 140 first calf coming three year olds and the more mature cows ranging in age from 3's to 18."

Re-reading it, I take it to mean they've calved once.

CC,
It`s been warmer in WY than KY the last few days...I`m guess LL is kinda busy; and then again, he might just be spending all his time with his new electronic cigarette but most, if not all, heifers calve at two...

Keeney- 50 degrees last night when I went to bed- today at noon it is 58 degrees

Last night on the Great Falls news they were showing all the old geezers out golfing on their local golf courses... It was 60 there- but the golfers said the wind that was gusting to 40 mph made it a little tricky...

W.T wrote:

I guess this is what describes the main stream registered breeders to me. Most will think iam Nuts but what the Hell.
There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.
I dunno why she swallowed that fly,
Perhaps she'll die.
There was an old lady who swallowed a spider,
That wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
But I dunno why she swallowed that fly -
Perhaps she'll die.
There was an old lady who swallowed a bird;
How absurd, to swallow a bird!
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider
That wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
But I dunno why she swallowed that fly -
Perhaps she'll die
There was an old lady who swallowed a cat.
Imagine that, she swallowed a cat.
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird ...
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider
That wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
But I dunno why she swallowed that fly
Perhaps she'll die
There was an old lady who swallowed a dog.
What a hog! To swallow a dog!
She swallowed the dog to catch the cat...
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird ...
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider
That wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
But I dunno why she swallowed that fly
Perhaps she'll die.
There was an old lady who swallowed a goat.
Just opened her throat and swallowed a goat!
She swallowed the goat to catch the dog ...
She swallowed the dog to catch the cat.
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird ...
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider
That wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
But I dunno why she swallowed that fly
Perhaps she'll die.
There was an old lady who swallowed a cow.
I don't know how she swallowed a cow!
She swallowed the cow to catch the goat...
She swallowed the goat to catch the dog...
She swallowed the dog to catch the cat...
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird ...
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider
That wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
But I dunno why she swallowed that fly
Perhaps she'll die.
There was an old lady who swallowed a horse -
She's dead, of course.
In the end is this the fate of the registered cow. I Think she'll Die

I could survive swallowing a horse easier than swallowing the registered business these days...from Advantage to 4.9, you can get your belly full anytime...