Another new guy

Posts : 321 Join date : 2011-03-07

Will wrote:: Ya, I also think it is funny Judas! Now I see it! Yes I seen it! Now I don't. Now that is really, really, funny! Turn up the heat Judas. Now that is really, really, really funny!

What? You mean you can stir but I can't? I thought that was why you are here, to stir, so lets stir! Smile

Posts : 321 Join date : 2011-03-07

MKeeney wrote:

Dylan Biggs wrote:

Will wrote:: Don't makeup my EPD's. They are in-house and based on my own cowherd. You can use Association EPD's if you want to. I have no problem with that. You can also fire and ice all you want. I won't and don't! Could care less what Darrh Bullock has to say about it. Do a fire and ice story and base it on Association EPD's! Is there a bigger joke?

Will from a relative joke stand point you are ranking right up there.

How can you know whether or not you care less about what Darrh Bullock says when you have not even taken the time to read the article. I am laughing. I am also beginning to question whether or not you can read, and if you can whether you are capable of a discussion requiring conceptual comprehension.

But I have to hand it to you the funniest thing is your mathematical prowess, calculation of in house EPD's.

I must admit I never would have guessed that you are intimately familiar with Best Linear Unbiased Prediction and able to equate EPD's using a system of simultaneous equations that incorporates information from all known/recorded relatives of the animal by utilizing a relationship matrix that accounts for all relationships among relatives within a herd.

Good for you Will! Very Happy

That is funny!!!

Dylan,
don`t you just love the guy...no need for genetic principles or formulas,... but unlike the mainstream, , no point in BS`ing us with technicalities, there`s no pretense, he just does it, tells us it`s good, and shows us pretty pictures...good enough I say; I think I `d buy a bull from him anyday before I would those who go to great lengths to tell us how honest and good they do everything...like 26 measures and idiot proof guarantees?
I had to laugh at the "sales managers" telling Larkota to put his money where his mouth was on Advantage; what a joke...I think these sales managers should put their money where their mouth is on all these cattle and cattle breeders they embellish...if the owner won`t settle up on cattle not living up to footnote status, the sales manager pays...it seems the sales manager`s real job is to do the lying and let the owner maintain a half clear conscience...

Mike, I don't mind being stirred and I know Will likes stirring, so I am sure he doesn't mind being stirred either. Now if the stirring is working and someones gets stirred all the better, right?

Mike, I don't mind being told it's good either, heck I think it probably is good. I was confused for a second there and thought that Will thought there might be a chance of making good consistently good er, but he seems quite focused on convincing us that good is as good as it gets and who can argue with that. I know Will can and I can, but I'm mostly just stirring cause that's what Will likes even more than good, definately more than good er. He likes a good stirring and I am a stirrer from way back, especially genetic stirring mostly with flavors I like but I do like stirring other things also. Smile

Talking about likes, Will seems to know that like to like equals like. Oddly enough Will claims he likes like to like and likes the results, but it seems to me if he really liked like to like he would enter in to the Forbidden Forrest of genetic like to like, which for some reason he seems to dislike. Once over his dislike of the look of genetic like to like, if he could convince a handful of his remaining customers to get over their dislike of the genetic like to like looks, he would be pleased with how much his customers like the looks of the consistent end result of crossing two complimentary dislikes. Stirring makes me dizzy. So I am starting to slow my genetic stirring and heading into the Forbidden Forrest in an effort to attempt to replicate the good drinks I have made over the years even though the glass they get stirred in may not make the drink look that appealing. In the end the effect of the drink is what matters not how it looked. I think Will must have been getting dizzy also, he is slowing his genetic stirring down to a hobby. I am going to go have a drink!

DB

Admin Posts : 3797 Join date : 2010-09-21

Dylan,
I would like Will to like to read what I like, but he just knows that no one knows what he knows and so on we go stirring, but getting no where...I actually think he represents the mainstream so well in all he does, and he might not know that...
I really regret he`ll never be in Montana again; kinda a Paul Mclean from A River Runs Through It in reverse...

Posts : 321 Join date : 2011-03-07

MKeeney wrote:: Dylan,
I would like Will to like to read what I like, but he just knows that no one knows what he knows and so on we go stirring, but getting no where...I actually think he represents the mainstream so well in all he does, and he might not know that...
I really regret he`ll never be in Montana again; kinda a Paul Mclean from A River Runs Through It in reverse...

Mike, I don't think Will would like to read what he likes either, I think he likes to write more than read, but a writer must appreciate reading if he would like his writing to be read. Stirring and stirring and up and down we go, getting no where, but at least going. As long as the place of such activity is pleasing maybe there is no need to go anywhere. Where ever you go, there you are. Will is satisfied where he is. Never is a long time Mike.

Posts : 183 Join date : 2012-04-17

Hey I'm not saying your way is wrong. Prefer my way. My way you get to the end point sooner. If hybrids were wrong why are the numbers sold growing? If your way is so great why do you only average one desciple a year? Lets get back to fire and ice. MK, so you do not agree with LL on Fire and ice. What do you pick certain things out of LL's teaching and discard the rest? Wind is finally not howling so we are spraying. Started the crack of dawn and should finish today. I'm am making bull raising a hobby because I want to and I no longer feel the need to prove anything to anyone, but let's stir on!

Posts : 183 Join date : 2012-04-17

Oh one other thing. I love to read but it has to be interesting. Not three pages of crap if it is a family or line. Jeez what a waste of space.

Posts : 109 Join date : 2011-12-17 Location : nemo

Will wrote:: Hey I'm not saying your way is wrong. Prefer my way. My way you get to the end point sooner. If hybrids were wrong why are the numbers sold growing? If your way is so great why do you only average one desciple a year? Lets get back to fire and ice. MK, so you do not agree with LL on Fire and ice. What do you pick certain things out of LL's teaching and discard the rest? Wind is finally not howling so we are spraying. Started the crack of dawn and should finish today. I'm am making bull raising a hobby because I want to and I no longer feel the need to prove anything to anyone, but let's stir on!

Will , My guess hybrid numbers are growing is solely from a human desire for a short cut . Will , why did you not have the stomach for your gelbvieh herd ? No Patience ? Was the wind howling ?
Therein lies a major problem with seedstock production , too many treat the raising of seedstock as a hobby . May your spray be contained in house . Jon

Posts : 183 Join date : 2012-04-17

Jonken, heck no I felt there was a better way, and I was right. NO reason and I mean NO reason for a commerical rancher to run purebred cows, especially purebred Gelbvieh or Simmental cows in my area. NONE! When Gelbvieh first got in my area they were the hottest thing going. Came up from South Dakota. Great cow at the quarter or half blood level. Around 450 high % Gelbvieh bulls sold each year at my local Sales barn. None are sold now! NONE, except for the ones I sell off our ranch! Once commerical ranchers got over half blood Gelbvieh in his cow herd they went backwards and they had to start using purebred Angus to get the right breed composition back. I was the only one that figured it out in my area to make half and quarter blood Gelbvieh bulls to keep my customers from going over the half blood level in their cows. Got paid really well for figuring it out. My bulls maintain the breed composition the commerical rancher wants. Also give them the opportunity to max heterosis by using Sim-Angus. Oh by the way our top selling bull last week was a quarter blood Gelbvieh. Long time repeat customer is going to use him back on his Sim-Angus cows sired by our Sim-Angus bulls! We both agreed its going to be a smashing success! 28 years of bull sales is a hobby. Wow! hell of a hobby. Mentioned wind and spraying because MK and Judas were wondering if I was afraid to stir with them!

Posts : 183 Join date : 2012-04-17

DF, no concern. My customers know what I think of Cattle Associations and Association EPD's. They agree with me. Show me an association that knows my cows as well as I do! Impossible. Never did need an Association or an Association registration paper to sell my bulls! I pass the saving back to my customers.

Posts : 521 Join date : 2010-09-28

Will wrote:: DF, no concern. My customers know what I think of Cattle Associations and Association EPD's. They agree with me. Show me an association that knows my cows as well as I do! Impossible. Never did need an Association or an Association registration paper to sell my bulls! I pass the saving back to my customers.

I was visiting with a young swine producer who has her sows outside on pasture during gestation. I asked if there was any pressure to force her sows inside to avoid runoff in her area. She said she was actually in a good position as customers wanted to see the sows outside as much as possible. Her comment was "no, for once I am so far behind that I am ahead"!

Subject: Re: Another new guy Tue May 15, 2012 5:31 pm

Will wrote:: Jonken, heck no I felt there was a better way, and I was right. NO reason and I mean NO reason for a commerical rancher to run purebred cows, especially purebred Gelbvieh or Simmental cows in my area. NONE! When Gelbvieh first got in my area they were the hottest thing going. Came up from South Dakota. Great cow at the quarter or half blood level. Around 450 high % Gelbvieh bulls sold each year at my local Sales barn. None are sold now! NONE, except for the ones I sell off our ranch! Once commerical ranchers got over half blood Gelbvieh in his cow herd they went backwards and they had to start using purebred Angus to get the right breed composition back. I was the only one that figured it out in my area to make half and quarter blood Gelbvieh bulls to keep my customers from going over the half blood level in their cows. Got paid really well for figuring it out. My bulls maintain the breed composition the commerical rancher wants. Also give them the opportunity to max heterosis by using Sim-Angus. Oh by the way our top selling bull last week was a quarter blood Gelbvieh. Long time repeat customer is going to use him back on his Sim-Angus cows sired by our Sim-Angus bulls! We both agreed its going to be a smashing success! 28 years of bull sales is a hobby. Wow! hell of a hobby. Mentioned wind and spraying because MK and Judas were wondering if I was afraid to stir with them!

Good job someone is still rearing the pure strains or you'd have nowhere to go for your input genetics.

Posts : 183 Join date : 2012-04-17

DF, good one. Were you at the Gelbvieh Association when Tom Brink was the top guy? Had a long phone visit with Tom, in fact it was over two hours, when I pulled most of my cows papers. Were you at the Gelbvieh Association when they raised the base for EPD's? Why they ever started at zero I will never know. Some people think I'm behind but I think I am way ahead of the game, and really life and business is really only a game.

Posts : 183 Join date : 2012-04-17

Grassfarmer, Never need a purebred herdbull again. Only hybrids and why not? Big nuts, settle more cows, and the heterosis makes them easy keeping. Why should I let my customers have all the fun.

Posts : 521 Join date : 2010-09-28

Will wrote:: DF, good one. Were you at the Gelbvieh Association when Tom Brink was the top guy? Had a long phone visit with Tom, in fact it was over two hours, when I pulled most of my cows papers. Were you at the Gelbvieh Association when they raised the base for EPD's? Why they ever started at zero I will never know. Some people think I'm behind but I think I am way ahead of the game, and really life and business is really only a game.

I was at AGA when Schiefelbein was the exec. I think they changed the base before I arrived.

Admin Posts : 3797 Join date : 2010-09-21

Quote :: NO reason and I mean NO reason for a commerical rancher to run purebred cows, especially purebred Gelbvieh or Simmental cows in my area

in any area...

Quote :: heterosis makes them easy keeping

laughable; feed makes them easy keeping if they are producing any weight Very Happy

Quote :: I
I'm am making bull raising a hobby because I want to and I no longer feel the need to prove anything to anyone,

I`m continuing my hobby of raising bulls because I have something to prove...Will is helping me prove my point that controlled heterosis is a valuabe asset to be maximized in commercial herds instead of seedstock herds...

Posts : 321 Join date : 2011-03-07

Grassfarmer wrote:

Will wrote:: Jonken, heck no I felt there was a better way, and I was right. NO reason and I mean NO reason for a commerical rancher to run purebred cows, especially purebred Gelbvieh or Simmental cows in my area. NONE! When Gelbvieh first got in my area they were the hottest thing going. Came up from South Dakota. Great cow at the quarter or half blood level. Around 450 high % Gelbvieh bulls sold each year at my local Sales barn. None are sold now! NONE, except for the ones I sell off our ranch! Once commerical ranchers got over half blood Gelbvieh in his cow herd they went backwards and they had to start using purebred Angus to get the right breed composition back. I was the only one that figured it out in my area to make half and quarter blood Gelbvieh bulls to keep my customers from going over the half blood level in their cows. Got paid really well for figuring it out. My bulls maintain the breed composition the commerical rancher wants. Also give them the opportunity to max heterosis by using Sim-Angus. Oh by the way our top selling bull last week was a quarter blood Gelbvieh. Long time repeat customer is going to use him back on his Sim-Angus cows sired by our Sim-Angus bulls! We both agreed its going to be a smashing success! 28 years of bull sales is a hobby. Wow! hell of a hobby. Mentioned wind and spraying because MK and Judas were wondering if I was afraid to stir with them!

Good job someone is still rearing the pure strains or you'd have nowhere to go for your input genetics.

Grassfarmer, you may as well stir, trying to communicate a concept to Hayseuss is...... a waste of his time. Hayseuss is here to stir, not to consider, ponder, reflect, deliberate, ruminate or speculate. He has no reason. He is content to stir. Keep stirring Haysuess. One thing I can't figure though is why someone would go farming when he was doing so well getting paid raising good hybrid max heterosis bulls. Driving through a field in a sprayer must be a better hobby and more comfortable than looking at cattle in a pick up truck. But as well as Haysuess was doing selling bulls I am sure he is driving a luxury pickup. scratch

I am also confused on the definition of a hobby as used by Haysuess. scratch

Judas....whom without the resurrection could not have happened. Smile

Posts : 321 Join date : 2011-03-07

MKeeney wrote:

Quote :: NO reason and I mean NO reason for a commerical rancher to run purebred cows, especially purebred Gelbvieh or Simmental cows in my area

in any area...

Quote :: heterosis makes them easy keeping

laughable; feed makes them easy keeping if they are producing any weight Very Happy

Quote :: I
I'm am making bull raising a hobby because I want to and I no longer feel the need to prove anything to anyone,

I`m continuing my hobby of raising bulls because I have something to prove...Will is helping me prove my point that controlled heterosis is a valuabe asset to be maximized in commercial herds instead of seedstock herds...

No Mike, maximizing heterosis helps the seedstock guys get paid, and once you have max heterosis it is passed on without depletion, sustained so to speak, not quite sure how it works, nor does anyone else except for Haysuess. Maybe when he is done spraying, if none of the spray got to him, he will take time to explain the mechanism and system by which this sustaining occurs.

Judas....without whom Haysuess would have been just another guy!

Subject: Re: Another new guy Tue May 15, 2012 10:35 pm

Dylan Biggs wrote:: Maybe when he is done spraying, if none of the spray got to him, he will take time to explain the mechanism and system by which this sustaining occurs.

Dylan, we maybe too late worrying about the spray... although it sure would explain a lot of things.

Posts : 183 Join date : 2012-04-17

Judas, how did I earn the name Haysuess. I like it. I call you Judas because you said twice you saw soft and when everyone else made fun of me you all of a sudden did not see soft. Not many things worse than a Judas. Right MK? I do not drive our sprayer. My son does. I haul water and help fill the sprayer. We both like new things and farming is new for us. Son just put mapping in the sprayer. Unreal. 3 Grand. Map the field and it shows you where to drive. Did I say unreal. Son really likes technology. Really good at it to. Will add auto boom, auto boom shut off, auto steer and more than likely a DVD player to watch movies. Cab and air also. Never owned a new pickup. Never been into pickups. More the Sam Walton type of guy. New pickups and cars are a waste of money. One word that really pisses off purebred breeders is heterosis. Two words that really piss off a purebred breeder is max heterosis. Max heterosis always get their attention. MK glad to be helping you prove your point that controlled heterosis is a valuable asset to be maximized in commerical herds instead of seedstock herds. You need all the help you can get so please explain how you are doing it. Judas a hobby is doing something you enjoy with top notch equipment and cash flowing it. More to cattle at my place than driving around in a pickup. Fence to fix, hay to cut, hay to haul, hay to feed, manure to haul, ect. ect. ect. Done that most of my life and want to do something else. What do you do for a living?

Posts : 109 Join date : 2011-12-17 Location : nemo

Will wrote:: Judas, how did I earn the name Haysuess. I like it. I call you Judas because you said twice you saw soft and when everyone else made fun of me you all of a sudden did not see soft. Not many things worse than a Judas. Right MK? I do not drive our sprayer. My son does. I haul water and help fill the sprayer. We both like new things and farming is new for us. Son just put mapping in the sprayer. Unreal. 3 Grand. Map the field and it shows you where to drive. Did I say unreal. Son really likes technology. Really good at it to. Will add auto boom, auto boom shut off, auto steer and more than likely a DVD player to watch movies. Cab and air also. Never owned a new pickup. Never been into pickups. More the Sam Walton type of guy. New pickups and cars are a waste of money. One word that really pisses off purebred breeders is heterosis. Two words that really piss off a purebred breeder is max heterosis. Max heterosis always get their attention. MK glad to be helping you prove your point that controlled heterosis is a valuable asset to be maximized in commerical herds instead of seedstock herds. You need all the help you can get so please explain how you are doing it. Judas a hobby is doing something you enjoy with top notch equipment and cash flowing it. More to cattle at my place than driving around in a pickup. Fence to fix, hay to cut, hay to haul, hay to feed, manure to haul, ect. ect. ect. Done that most of my life and want to do something else. What do you do for a living?

Will , How do you define controlled heterosis ? Jon

Posts : 109 Join date : 2011-12-17 Location : nemo

Will wrote:: Jonken, heck no I felt there was a better way, and I was right. NO reason and I mean NO reason for a commerical rancher to run purebred cows, especially purebred Gelbvieh or Simmental cows in my area. NONE! When Gelbvieh first got in my area they were the hottest thing going. Came up from South Dakota. Great cow at the quarter or half blood level. Around 450 high % Gelbvieh bulls sold each year at my local Sales barn. None are sold now! NONE, except for the ones I sell off our ranch! Once commerical ranchers got over half blood Gelbvieh in his cow herd they went backwards and they had to start using purebred Angus to get the right breed composition back. I was the only one that figured it out in my area to make half and quarter blood Gelbvieh bulls to keep my customers from going over the half blood level in their cows. Got paid really well for figuring it out. My bulls maintain the breed composition the commerical rancher wants. Also give them the opportunity to max heterosis by using Sim-Angus. Oh by the way our top selling bull last week was a quarter blood Gelbvieh. Long time repeat customer is going to use him back on his Sim-Angus cows sired by our Sim-Angus bulls! We both agreed its going to be a smashing success! 28 years of bull sales is a hobby. Wow! hell of a hobby. Mentioned wind and spraying because MK and Judas were wondering if I was afraid to stir with them!

Will you stated your enjoyment of reading , do you not read what you write ? If you were the only one figuring IT out why give IT up ?
TUESDAY'S GONE WITH THE WIND .................Train roll on.... Jon

Posts : 183 Join date : 2012-04-17

Jonken, go back and read what I wrote. I WAS the only one to figure it out. Not anymore. The smart bull raisers have it figured out now! Why give it up. I have never done anything in my life just for the money. Don't enjoy it any more. My son really does not enjoy it anymore. He wanted to quit when the genetic defects surfaced. See in Southwest North Dakota there is so much opportunity to make money. Young ranchers are selling their cows and going to the oil fields or breaking all their hayland up and farming it and working in the oil field in the winter or they are starting businesses in the oil field. MK's quote on controlled heterosis not mine! You really do need to learn how to read.

Posts : 183 Join date : 2012-04-17

DF, read a couple of your storied in Gelbvieh World. Liked them. Got to know Donny Schiefelbein really well. He developed the Balancer program. Gave a lot of thought to re-joining and registering my cattle again. Did not because if a 75 Yearling EPD was good a 100 yearling EPD had to be better. What a joke. I could never have done what I did using Association EPD's. I would of had to turn my herdbulls every year just to get the high EPD numbers every year just like the A.I. guys still do! Bull of the month club is not for me!

Posts : 109 Join date : 2011-12-17 Location : nemo

MK glad to be helping you prove your point that controlled heterosis is a valuable asset to be maximized in commerical herds instead of seedstock herds. [/quote]

Will , If you are helping MK prove his point , you should be able to define controlled heterosis . If not how are you helping MK prove his piont ? Jon

Posts : 109 Join date : 2011-12-17 Location : nemo

Will wrote:: Jonken, go back and read what I wrote. I WAS the only one to figure it out. Not anymore. The smart bull raisers have it figured out now! Why give it up. I have never done anything in my life just for the money. Don't enjoy it any more. My son really does not enjoy it anymore. He wanted to quit when the genetic defects surfaced. See in Southwest North Dakota there is so much opportunity to make money. Young ranchers are selling their cows and going to the oil fields or breaking all their hayland up and farming it and working in the oil field in the winter or they are starting businesses in the oil field. MK's quote on controlled heterosis not mine! You really do need to learn how to read.

Sorry Will ,I have many shortcomings and reading what you write is one of them . With many capable tutors here on KC I'm hoping someone comes to my rescue of comprehension .
Jon ...The Judas Goat , along for the ride .