What you can't see

How important are the things you can't see?

Many breeders can tell which is the biggest, tallest, etc. Can they tell which bulls are more fertile, eliminate dystocia on heifers, have genetics for marbling, etc? Are these things important to a breeder or should they educate their commercial customers how to eliminate problems and/or select for what they want?

df wrote:

How important are the things you can't see?

Many breeders can tell which is the biggest, tallest, etc. Can they tell which bulls are more fertile, eliminate dystocia on heifers, have genetics for marbling, etc? Are these things important to a breeder or should they educate their commercial customers how to eliminate problems and/or select for what they want?

the only problems to eliminate are my own, dont know what your problem is and how wrong for me to guess.

how do I educate those that are smarter then me that keep making the same mistake??

df wrote:

How important are the things you can't see?

Many breeders can tell which is the biggest, tallest, etc. Can they tell which bulls are more fertile, eliminate dystocia on heifers, have genetics for marbling, etc? Are these things important to a breeder or should they educate their commercial customers how to eliminate problems and/or select for what they want?

Udders are difficult to see in a bull, but I see the udders in this one, do you?[img][/img]


It has only taken seven years to see that the udders don't look like his mother's, or his sire's daughters here.

larkota wrote:

df wrote:

How important are the things you can't see?

Many breeders can tell which is the biggest, tallest, etc. Can they tell which bulls are more fertile, eliminate dystocia on heifers, have genetics for marbling, etc? Are these things important to a breeder or should they educate their commercial customers how to eliminate problems and/or select for what they want?

the only problems to eliminate are my own, dont know what your problem is and how wrong for me to guess.

how do I educate those that are smarter then me that keep making the same mistake??

I don't have a problem; just asking a question.

df wrote:

larkota wrote:

df wrote:

How important are the things you can't see?

Many breeders can tell which is the biggest, tallest, etc. Can they tell which bulls are more fertile, eliminate dystocia on heifers, have genetics for marbling, etc? Are these things important to a breeder or should they educate their commercial customers how to eliminate problems and/or select for what they want?

the only problems to eliminate are my own, dont know what your problem is and how wrong for me to guess.

how do I educate those that are smarter then me that keep making the same mistake??

I don't have a problem; just asking a question.

maybe your question is the problem cause I didn't know I had a problem till you asked the question.

are the things I see and dont like more important then the problems I dont have and cant see?

my problem is I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about

[quote="df"]How important are the things you can't see?

Are you asking from the standpoint of a producer who goes to a breeders herd he/she knows nothing about ?
By the way I just love that word dystocia and remember it being drilled in my nonconformist head while attempting to place a class of elephants in the early '80s . Jon hoping TD has a cocktail on his birthday named DYSTOCIA .

[quote="jonken"]

df wrote:

How important are the things you can't see?

Are you asking from the standpoint of a producer who goes to a breeders herd he/she knows nothing about ?
By the way I just love that word dystocia and remember it being drilled in my nonconformist head while attempting to place a class of elephants in the early '80s . Jon hoping TD has a cocktail on his birthday named DYSTOCIA .

I guess from both the producer but also as a breeder. When I first wrote the question, I was thinking as a producer.

Wodda,coudda,shoudda. The things that can't be seen. Sort of like what bites you when it's too late. The bull that puts the narrow, pointy rear ends on his daughters. Damn, he looked good in the sale. 40lbs of grain a day hides a lot of flaws. How 'bout the heifer that wants to suck another heifer. That's a "little" issue in the herd her sire came from although the breeder doesn't think it's a big deal. Long, narrow heads. Sloped udders. Didn't see those coming either. They're important now but I didn't see 'em when the bull was turned out. Feed buckets hide a lot of problems.

df, you ask a good question. It seems the things "you" can't see up front, or the breeder keeps hidden, WILL haunt you. Then, it's too late. But, it's a valubull lesson that's well retained. It's what's made KC unique. It's why moron's are paying $big$ at "production sales" across the county this year. Most are trying to fix what the last bull left behind. More money, bigger numbers, better names surely will do it this time. Remember the definition of insanity?

Most guys believe what's written in ABS, Genex, SelectSires, or production sale catalogs. They've never read Bonsma. They haven't seen a "quality" herd of cattle. How do you make an educated decision when everything you base comparisons on are identical? You have to have the initiative to educate yourself. That comes from experiencing a major problem which drives "you" to find a functional solution. You have to leave your comfort zone. How many are willing to do that?

Good points CC. We all learn from the pocket book.. But then some of have deep enough pockets that we never learn and don't care. There are many 500hd hobby ranches that someone owns that has no clue as to anything other than if it is expensive it has to be good.

OK, Choc cow now I've got it. thank you, you know how to teach, a rare talent ...

Dennis Voss wrote:

my problem is I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about

maybe your question is the problem cause I didn't know I had a problem till you asked the question.

are the things I see and dont like more important then the problems I dont have and cant see?



didnt know my dad could make money, buy ground, feeding yearling out, off of little black emulous cows with emulous bulls.

only when " they" told me I could have more, get more, make more, did I think that I could show my dad how to do it right.

in other words my dad didnt know he was doing it wrong till I showed him how fast I could go backwards.



fast forward to today. am I better off finding culls or not noticing the working average cow??

Yeah, it reminds me of the provincial meat inspector who was so proud of himself that he was shutting down numerous family owned, small, old abbatoirs for not being up to code on ceiling hieghts, lighting, proper wall surfaces etc, etc, and I asked him as an older gentleman in all his years as a meat inspector how many people he was aware of that had been made sick from the meat at these abbatoirs and he said none. All the E-Coli and Lysteria sickness and death cases were from eating meat from the big federal corporate plants that were up to code. A classic case of progressively going backwards. And in the meantime jobs and $ are being taken out of rural economies thatt the provincial govt is supposedly interested in helping. What a fracking screwed up system. Now we have a few beureacrats who think local food is a good idea after they dismantled all the necessary infrastructure in the name of progress.

The article that DV shared re theoretical renewability of fossil fuels.....my first thought was one of dissapointment at the idea....I have been hoping for 20 years that the end of cheap fossil fuels would maybe give us the inertia to come up with a cropping system that was not totally chemical dependent and give our dirt a chance at actually being turned back into a living soil. All those dollars leaving the local economy going to chemical, machinery and banking corporations/shareholders.

DB